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Set SuperCarrier for Case III regardless of actual conditions


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Does anybody know if there is a setting or LUA entry or ??? that would allow-provide for the carrier to operate under Case III landing protocols even in a brilliant beautiful sunny noon environment? I would imagine IRL this is done with newer pilots and training, and it provides a much better visual perspective to view/experience the ALCS system as well as other aspects of carrier landings.

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On 5/14/2022 at 3:55 AM, AvgWhiteGuy said:

Does anybody know if there is a setting or LUA entry or ??? that would allow-provide for the carrier to operate under Case III landing protocols even in a brilliant beautiful sunny noon environment? I would imagine IRL this is done with newer pilots and training, and it provides a much better visual perspective to view/experience the ALCS system as well as other aspects of carrier landings.

It's not done that way IRL. It's either Case I, II or III. But there is nothing stopping you from building that in a mission. You have your BRC so all you would need to do is the math to come up with a radial and distance. Push time would be completely up to you. Now that I think of it, you can do it from a quick start mission, just ignore the AI ATC.

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Jackjack171 said:

It's not done that way IRL. It's either Case I, II or III. But there is nothing stopping you from building that in a mission. You have your BRC so all you would need to do is the math to come up with a radial and distance. Push time would be completely up to you. Now that I think of it, you can do it from a quick start mission, just ignore the AI ATC.

But you won’t be able to active and use ACLS, as it uses SuperCarrier comms as trigger points.


Edited by norman99
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1 hour ago, Jackjack171 said:

It's not done that way IRL. It's either Case I, II or III. But there is nothing stopping you from building that in a mission. You have your BRC so all you would need to do is the math to come up with a radial and distance. Push time would be completely up to you. Now that I think of it, you can do it from a quick start mission, just ignore the AI ATC.

I doubt that will work, because you won't get the radio coms menu.

There may be one way (untested) that it might work. I have VAICOM with voice attack. I'm able to execute commands and radio calls directly from within the app as it hooks the exports lua file (even if the radio menu isn't available in the F10 list).

So... it may be possible to do a 'COMMENCING' call via Vaicom and have the carrier switch to CASE III mode. One thing I do know is that I can skip steps (ie, I can go straight to platform, and don't have to first start with established, commencing, etc). If this works it would probably be a hack of a job - but could work as a workaround.  I'm only thinking out loud here though.

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Posted (edited)

OK - so confirmed. I was able to do a Case III landing during the day! 😃  Managed to get the following calls (Radar contact at 8 miles, needles on and on, etc) by calling platform via VAICOM.

Not sure if it's possible to do outside of VAICOM - as there'd have to be some way of executing the command via a LUA script or similar but at least I can confirm it's do-able. (Whether this translates over to the ACLS or not I can't say - but figure if I get the calls for a Case III, it's got to at least have a good chance).

Hope this helps.


Edited by Dangerzone
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Jackjack171 said:

It's not done that way IRL. It's either Case I, II or III. But there is nothing stopping you from building that in a mission. You have your BRC so all you would need to do is the math to come up with a radial and distance. Push time would be completely up to you. Now that I think of it, you can do it from a quick start mission, just ignore the AI ATC.

That seems strange IRL....I would think that new aviators need to go thru Case III in daylight Case I conditions. 

I set up a mission at 13:00 and get Case III (with the COMS) by adding a little fog. The Long Range Laser Lineup is visible at 20+ miles and I'm trying to limit the fog so the flight deck is visible at 5 miles. Trial & Error...

The goal is to get the carrier as visible as possible for Case III ACLS recoveries as a training aid for some of us mere mortals that would appreciate a bit more visual perspective in improving our carrier landings. Whether pilots use ACLS or not is up to them, I can see some using this as a tool to get more confidence in general carrier landings before stepping into the intimidating darkness of real Case III.

I'm not advocating a feature option for regular flights & missions, just for training. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'll post the MIZ after I tune it a little more.


Edited by AvgWhiteGuy
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5 hours ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

That seems strange IRL....I would think that new aviators need to go thru Case III in daylight Case I conditions. 

I set up a mission at 13:00 and get Case III (with the COMS) by adding a little fog. The Long Range Laser Lineup is visible at 20+ miles and I'm trying to limit the fog so the flight deck is visible at 5 miles. Trial & Error...

The goal is to get the carrier as visible as possible for Case III ACLS recoveries as a training aid for some of us mere mortals that would appreciate a bit more visual perspective in improving our carrier landings. Whether pilots use ACLS or not is up to them, I can see some using this as a tool to get more confidence in general carrier landings before stepping into the intimidating darkness of real Case III.

I'm not advocating a feature option for regular flights & missions, just for training. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'll post the MIZ after I tune it a little more.

 

Day would be better, for sure, but selecting a night time in ME is a Case III with a perfect CAVOK conditions, so in the mean time some guru finds a lua or mod solution, better then nothing I do Night CAVOK ACLS traps to see the carrier from the start of Case III approach. 

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1 hour ago, pokeraccio said:

Day would be better, for sure, but selecting a night time in ME is a Case III with a perfect CAVOK conditions, so in the mean time some guru finds a lua or mod solution, better then nothing I do Night CAVOK ACLS traps to see the carrier from the start of Case III approach. 

I understand what you're saying but my goal is all about providing a better visual perspective of the whole approach, lineup process without the added complexities of weather, the night time degradation of depth perception and other distracting variables in and outside the cockpit. A pilot (sim or real) may make 100 daytime traps but the 1st couple night or sloppy soup weather traps has a pucker factor of 9+, so by being able to see the whole process we might reduce a couple pucker factors and allow more confidence, especially since we can merge the instruments with our real vision...in our brain. Keep in mind this is only an initial training mission.

Personally, I have <profanity>ty vision from a detached retina (and age), and others have similar limitations. We should all want members of the community to improve their flying skills and enjoy what they are doing. After reducing the associated frustrations and building that confidence we can move on to the next challenge.

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8 minutes ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

I understand what you're saying but my goal is all about providing a better visual perspective of the whole approach, lineup process without the added complexities of weather, the night time degradation of depth perception and other distracting variables in and outside the cockpit. A pilot (sim or real) may make 100 daytime traps but the 1st couple night or sloppy soup weather traps has a pucker factor of 9+, so by being able to see the whole process we might reduce a couple pucker factors and allow more confidence, especially since we can merge the instruments with our real vision...in our brain. Keep in mind this is only an initial training mission.

Personally, I have <profanity>ty vision from a detached retina (and age), and others have similar limitations. We should all want members of the community to improve their flying skills and enjoy what they are doing. After reducing the associated frustrations and building that confidence we can move on to the next challenge.

I got your point, and I agree with you that practicing during day time it is another kind of story.

Let’s see if we can find a solution, we could also try with the wishlist section.

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If ED would be willing - adding a couple of extra actions in the FA18 communication options to bind buttons/keystrokes to the likes of "Commencing", "Established", "Platform" in the same way we have "Hornet Ball" would probably be all that is needed - nothing more, because as mentioned above - it seems as though one of these is triggered (which I did with VAICOM) - the carrier automatically switches into a Case III approach. 

Maybe it's worth adding these options in communications into the FA18's "wishlist"? 

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@Dangerzone ....maybe you can provide a little more detail of your V/A-Vaicom solution, I'm using it a lot more and curious. 

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Here is a mission file I that threw together to test F/A-18 using Case III ACLS on SuperCarrier-CVN71 during daylight hours (1345hrs) on Caucasus map for those that want to get a big picture view before attempting same in darkness or inclement weather. Simple straight in from around 65mi so you have time to get set up cockpit and Comms. Remember it's a training aid that will bore most of you 

If it is worthy of posting on DCS > Missions let me know. Comments, suggestions & critiques are welcome and appreciated, 

ACLS System Test_Caucasus_Day_v1.miz

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14 hours ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

@Dangerzone ....maybe you can provide a little more detail of your V/A-Vaicom solution, I'm using it a lot more and curious. 

Not much to report really. I use the radio features of VAICOM to make my radio calls. So instead of having to use the Radio Menu, and select F5-ATC-Teddy Roosevelt-Inbound, I just need to make a vocal call "Inbound" into my mic while pressing the PTT1 button I've assigned in Voice Attack and the system recognises my call and transmits the radio message. Same with 'Hornet Ball'.

What I discovered is with VAICOM - I can make radio calls even though they're note available to me in the F10 menu. So, if I press the PTT/TX button assigned to VAICOM in Voice attack and say "COMMENCING" - that starts the whole CASE III Commencing process. From there - the AI/ATC automatically picks up on it and I can continue a CASE III approach. I even get the calls "Final Radar Contact" at 8 miles, and the needles calls "on and on" as I get closer - all which are only case III calls.

I haven't had a chance to view your .miz mission but just wondering how you got the case III to work during the day. I'm assuming that's with fog?

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Posted (edited)

Obviously I used the VAICOM for 'Inbounds' but never thought of it for the extended calls like Case III, I'll try that today, thanks

See below for Weather setting...isn't much fog either..

 

2022-05-18 10_00_04-Window.jpg


Edited by AvgWhiteGuy
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This MIZ below is even more interesting for those interested the final 15 miles with ACLS Case III AND full COMS interaction. it's a beautiful June late afternoon (1845hrs), great sunlight and any fog is barely noticeable. I guess I fooled the system.
Fly 'Snake 1800'; you begin at 1,800ft@300....stabilize flight then immediately Active Pause On. Set up the aircraft for carrier recovery...TACAN, ILS, ACLS (all settings in briefing) and cockpit cleanup, etc.
Make Inbound call and follow the normal Case III radio procedures without stopping...Established > Commencing > [Switch Approach] > Check In > Platform.

Active Pause Off and fly her home...

If you want the full experience take a ride in Pontiac Inbound, she starts at 7,000ft about 50mi out.

ACLS System Test_Caucasus_Day_v2.miz

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2 hours ago, ollk22 said:

WOuld be awesome to see a CV2 version? 😄

CV2 ???? Meaning???

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On 5/14/2022 at 4:55 AM, AvgWhiteGuy said:

Does anybody know if there is a setting or LUA entry or ??? that would allow-provide for the carrier to operate under Case III landing protocols even in a brilliant beautiful sunny noon environment? I would imagine IRL this is done with newer pilots and training, and it provides a much better visual perspective to view/experience the ALCS system as well as other aspects of carrier landings.

You could use Moose and the Airboss script to do all that.

https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Airboss.html

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1 hour ago, PaulToo said:

You could use Moose and the Airboss script to do all that.

https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Airboss.html

Would MOOSE work for the ACLS? My understanding (limited) is that Airboss is separate to DCS, and while it makes the calls, etc - it does not actually interact with DCS such as enabling the ACLS? (Or does ACLS not require any of the calls at all, and only that the ship is broadcasting for ACLS )?

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2 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Would MOOSE work for the ACLS? My understanding (limited) is that Airboss is separate to DCS, and while it makes the calls, etc - it does not actually interact with DCS such as enabling the ACLS? (Or does ACLS not require any of the calls at all, and only that the ship is broadcasting for ACLS )?


Good question. I would assume that it would work, if not it doesn't make any sense to have the options in the script. I don't have the Hornet, but I remember that I did let the F-14 autoland on the carrier in Case 1 conditions before it broke. If I have time today I try it out, also to see if the F-14s autopilot is really fixed. Setting up airboss is just a few lines of lua and for the test there don't need to be any bells and whistles in the mission.

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@PaulToo...it appears that haven't followed the jist of this thread....

The goal was to provide the visual cues, COMS protocols and work-flow benefits available in ACLS, which is only accessible in Case III conditions, to Case I conditions for a better, clearer minds eye view of the whole process during clear, daylight hours. This is turn would benefit those that may be struggling with the proper glide slope and lineup, those trying to process the overload of activity presented by inclement weather and darkness during Case III and those that may want to 'slow things down' by removing distracting elements. This was a training exercise, the goal was NOT to provide an 'autoland=true' solution.

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1 hour ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:

@PaulToo...it appears that haven't followed the jist of this thread....

The goal was to provide the visual cues, COMS protocols and work-flow benefits available in ACLS, which is only accessible in Case III conditions, to Case I conditions for a better, clearer minds eye view of the whole process during clear, daylight hours. This is turn would benefit those that may be struggling with the proper glide slope and lineup, those trying to process the overload of activity presented by inclement weather and darkness during Case III and those that may want to 'slow things down' by removing distracting elements. This was a training exercise, the goal was NOT to provide an 'autoland=true' solution.

That's why I suggested Moose-Airboss. You can set it to run case 3 traps even if the weather is perfect. Airboss itself has voice overs and extra visual cues (F10 menu). There is also some real-time help/hints and grading to help understand what went wrong/right or is the next step. Only drawback, if you want to call it that, is that the comms are over the F10 menu and not the usual F5-ATC.

The discussion with dangerzone was about if airboss can use acls if set to case 3 even in case 1 weather conditions. Just successfully tested that with the F-14 (thanks HB for fixing it) as I don't have the F-18.
 

Attached is the mission I put together to test the aforementioned. The F-14 is all setup (Tacan/icls tuned), didn't found a way to do that in the editor with the F-18. Channel 1 for both aircraft is Marshal and channel 2 is LSO.

Autolanding.miz

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