investigating We need to talk about Force Feedback and the Mossie...

[havebug]

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

EDIT: edit with my latest best settings

 

null

Y Axis:

null

 

Trim Y Axis:

Edited May 16, 2023 by havebug

[peachmonkey]

4 hours ago, havebug said:

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

 

 

 

you're still using the RHINO ForceTrim with this though, right?    I've tried the above setting about 6 months ago (without forcetrim) and even though it was flyable, it was still pretty wonky and unstable, I need a continuous stick input and couldn't fly hands off. With Forcetrim in Rhino obviously it's no longer a problem, but the point is I still need an outside program for that.    I guess there's a preference among players on how to actually fly the AC's. Anyhow, I'm glad you keep looking into this to find all possible solutions!!

[havebug]

4 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

you're still using the RHINO ForceTrim with this though, right? 

yep! Last night I found the game capturing the neutral trimming... and as a consequence, the plane pushed the force back and forth. So, to overcome this situation I had to set at first the neutral postion as discussed above (2 notches nose down), and then use the trim as usual (via the game or the VPForce tool)

t

[Xupicor]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:36 AM, NineLine said:

I have asked about FFB, and we generally do not support it due to lack of available hardware, I hope this changes in the future, but we have limited support for now.

Surely the company can scrounge up 2k euros to buy two Rhinos FFB bases from Walmis and some extensions and use that for testing with whatever compatible grips (Virpil, Warthog, etc) you already have? I think Walmis customers would agree to being shifted 2 units into the future if it was for the betterment of DCS FFB implementation down the road.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Xupicor

[MAXsenna]

Surely the company can scrounge up 2k euros to buy two Rhinos FFB bases from Walmis and some extensions and use that for testing with whatever compatible grips (Virpil, Warthog, etc) you already have? I think Walmis customers would agree to being shifted 2 units into the future if it was for the betterment of DCS FFB implementation down the road.

This!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[dresoccer4]

8 months later:

anyone know if there's been any positive movement on the Mossie FFB field? I haven't flown her in a long time because of this so haven't kept up with the updates. any good news from the home front, chaps?

Edited February 28 by dresoccer4

[DD_Fenrir]

33 minutes ago, dresoccer4 said:

8 months later:

anyone know if there's been any positive movement on the Mossie FFB field? I haven't flown her in a long time because of this so haven't kept up with the updates. any good news from the home front, chaps?

 

 

[dresoccer4]

26 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

 

 

sad news. the battle continues...

Edited February 28 by dresoccer4

[bertOC]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:43 PM, havebug said:

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

EDIT: edit with my latest best settings

 

null

Y Axis:

null

 

Trim Y Axis:

 

Thanks a lot for this, finally some hope after a long search..

Please make trim following an optional effect ED!

[bertOC]

BTW why is this marked as solved? I DM'ed Nineline a week ago about this but no response, seems like the issue isn't solved at all?

Edited March 24 by bertOC

[No.401_Wolverine]

I just spent a ton of time setting up the Mossie again for the 2nd time after giving up on it since release. I'd completely forgotten about this issue and it being the reason I stopped flying it. Instantly hit this problem again after my first take-off. Very sad to see that this issue still makes flying this aircraft such a frustrating experience for those of us with FFB sticks.

Very sad I won't be able to join my friends in their Mossie formations and bomb runs. It's just not doable with this trim and FFB stick.

[bertOC]

It's flyable with this setting for me, not ideal but good enough. Would be awesome to see this problem getting adressed.

[dresoccer4]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:10 PM, No.401_Wolverine said:

I just spent a ton of time setting up the Mossie again for the 2nd time after giving up on it since release. I'd completely forgotten about this issue and it being the reason I stopped flying it. Instantly hit this problem again after my first take-off. Very sad to see that this issue still makes flying this aircraft such a frustrating experience for those of us with FFB sticks.

Very sad I won't be able to join my friends in their Mossie formations and bomb runs. It's just not doable with this trim and FFB stick.

exactly. this is such a fun, unique bird and it's a shame this issue hasn't been addressed. i really want to like it...