lqqfrank Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) Many times I cannot find some ADF signal as given by the map. An example is: in the UH-1H quick start mission "Free Flight" in Caucasus Map, I cannot tune to Kobuleti ADF 490 T or 870 KT. While I can find ADF 493 LD at Krasnodar-Pashkvsky. (which is almost 318nm away) And that problem came again when I am playing Huey games such as "Argo Campaign" mission 2, which requires to locate Kobuleti airport. While I cannot find ADF 490 T. Interesting is that it doesn't happen in all missions. If I create a Caucasus mission by myself, the ADF 490 T is coming up, with clear signal. Sounds weird. I don't know if other ADF has the same problem. Please help to find out the reason and fix it. ADF is so handy for navigations without GPS. Edited May 16, 2022 by lqqfrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Some ADFs are active only when the runway is in use. Depending on the wind direction in the mission. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 There are area navigation NDBs (e.g. DA near Gali) and there are landing aids part of the 2NDB runway approach system. The area NDBs operate all the time. The 2NDB aids are associated with a particular runway and turn on and off based on the weather similar to ILSs. Indeed the T and KT beacons are associated with the 07 runway at Kobuleti. If the wind is blowing from the west strong enough the system will change to runway 25. Then T and KT will go offline and any NDBs associated with 25 will come on (there are none). A zero wind new mission will use runway 07 as that's the calm wind runway and those beacons will be operating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lqqfrank Posted May 17, 2022 Author Share Posted May 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Frederf said: There are area navigation NDBs (e.g. DA near Gali) and there are landing aids part of the 2NDB runway approach system. The area NDBs operate all the time. The 2NDB aids are associated with a particular runway and turn on and off based on the weather similar to ILSs. Indeed the T and KT beacons are associated with the 07 runway at Kobuleti. If the wind is blowing from the west strong enough the system will change to runway 25. Then T and KT will go offline and any NDBs associated with 25 will come on (there are none). A zero wind new mission will use runway 07 as that's the calm wind runway and those beacons will be operating. That's a pretty amazing detail. Not to disrespect your point, but I would just hope the Map Team please clarify clearly on which condition the NDB will be turn on and off... If it's not a bug. (I think these details are important for many campaign designers to know as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 It's been how it's worked for ages. There have been a few requests for radio landing aids to have a different logic such that non-conflicting aids remain on (e.g. when the opposite runway has no aids). An interesting detail is that (last I checked) there were small edge cases where ATC could assign verbally a different runway than the radio aids were configured for. The wind rules for radio aid selection depend on particular airports. Some are diehard always one runway. Some take a very strong tailwind to change and some are nearly 50/50. I did an experiment in 2018 and found the boundaries of Vaziani's ILS selection and ATC selection. They are based on different rules as the picture should show. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lqqfrank Posted May 17, 2022 Author Share Posted May 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Frederf said: It's been how it's worked for ages. There have been a few requests for radio landing aids to have a different logic such that non-conflicting aids remain on (e.g. when the opposite runway has no aids). An interesting detail is that (last I checked) there were small edge cases where ATC could assign verbally a different runway than the radio aids were configured for. The wind rules for radio aid selection depend on particular airports. Some are diehard always one runway. Some take a very strong tailwind to change and some are nearly 50/50. I did an experiment in 2018 and found the boundaries of Vaziani's ILS selection and ATC selection. They are based on different rules as the picture should show. Thanks a lot for the explanations. That makes sense. Quite knowledgeable! Again, do we have a full guide (document) of it. For example, you said the wind rules for radio aid selection depend on particular airports. So in DCS what airport on what rules? Do we have a complete guide? The picture is drawn by you through the experiment or is it a guide in some DCS docs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 I just did a spot check after experimenting on Vaziani to know that they vary. I feel like there were a few overall templates like 3 or 4. I didn't exhaustively map every airport. One was enough. It also gets hard because wind is defined at different elevations and airports are between the wind definition layers. I drew the diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lqqfrank Posted May 18, 2022 Author Share Posted May 18, 2022 If ED map team could provide a guide (or rule to explain) the complete logic and triggers, rather than we to try each condition and airport one by one, that would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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