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The new hold mode.


macedk

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Ahhhhhh 🙂

!2 feet 0 vel. Have video proof but people might think I'm active pause....I was not. 

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Yes it works very nice, however you must still steer of rudder for corrections (to compensate small drift to left or right).


Edited by YoYo

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Yep it was sweet for me today after the update as well. Had a bit of an adjustment for transitioning from forward flight to hover, once I get that dialed in then getting into that 0 speed hover and pressing the ATT was awesome.

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Good news! Looking forward to checking it out myself tonight.

 

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 Works well for me, too. The AC went into a stable hover and I was able to take hand off the cyclic. Was only holding collective for altitude control.

I‘m not sure but I feel the AC more stable in the hover without hold modes active.

In cruise flight I feel the AC more stable and smooth in attitude hold mode. In the previous OB when pressing the trim button in hold mode I always noticed a small nosedown tendency which corrected in a second with small oscillation moves before stabilising.

In the new OB the AC stays in place and smooth after pressing trim button. No nosedown tendency more. 
 

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After working a bit with the new SAS and AT HOLD it does seem more stable but I am having to work with the new SAS Saturation. Sometimes when entering a hold after re-trimming the tone goes off and I get SAS Saturation and it seems related to the new anti-torque pedal position. Going to take some getting used to the newer feel however it does seem like a step in the right direction so far.


Edited by monkie
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6 hours ago, durka-durka said:

What is the control binding that you need to use for it?

 

Trim button left.

 

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7 hours ago, monkie said:

After working a bit with the new SAS and AT HOLD it does seem more stable but I am having to work with the new SAS Saturation. Sometimes when entering a hold after re-trimming the tone goes off and I get SAS Saturation and it seems related to the new anti-torque pedal position. Going to take some getting used to the newer feel however it does seem like a step in the right direction so far.

 

Don't know how you go about setting up for hover. But what I found to be working quite good for myself is trimming everything as good as I can. Almost stable hover, then engage the "hold mode". I'm usually trimmed out, feet off the pedals and only using small inputs on my cyclic to keep position. At that moment I engage "hold mode". Works perfectly every time.

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Works very well for me as well.

BTW, does INS drift have anything to do with Position Hold? The AP had significantly more issues establishing the "hover" after the INS deteriorated.

Is it possible to reset the INS while airborne/moving or do I need to be landed?


Edited by Belphe

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I left the sim, went shopping and a coffee and a chit chat. When I came back the chopper had crashed ??? WTF ???






It ran out of fuel... 😉

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I found it to work very good! I did trim 1st. Just gotta manually maintain altitude and your all set. Sure makes life easier when your heads down on the VID screen making sure George isnt targeting a friendly.

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  • ED Team

You should always get the aircraft properly trimmed before engaging a hold mode. You don't have to, but if you don't, you most likely won't get the results you are expecting.

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Ok so can someone explain the "SAS Saturated" warning that I get sometimes? Usually it happens when I'm descending and slowing down in preparation to hover. I am not inducing any large inputs with any control and it seems more related to the pedal position because after I retrim the a bit the warning usually stops. I'm guessing it's saying it is trying to input some corrections and the corrections are outside of the "window" in the control display and is thus outside of the SAS ability to move the controls as well. 

As a side note this is without using the ATT HOLD mode, this is just simply flying using the force trim for cyclic and pedals.


Edited by monkie

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3 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

You should always get the aircraft properly trimmed before engaging a hold mode. You don't have to, but if you don't, you most likely won't get the results you are expecting.

Agree, like any auto system, there are limits 🙂

2 hours ago, monkie said:

Ok so can someone explain the "SAS Saturated" warning that I get sometimes? Usually it happens when I'm descending and slowing down in preparation to hover. I am not inducing any large inputs with any control and it seems more related to the pedal position because after I retrim the a bit the warning usually stops. I'm guessing it's saying it is trying to input some corrections and the corrections are outside of the "window" in the control display and is thus outside of the SAS ability to move the controls as well. 

As a side note this is without using the ATT HOLD mode, this is just simply flying using the force trim for cyclic and pedals.

 

SAS Saturated basically means you are asked for something the SAS cannot do. You can see (if you have the flight controls up) That green crosses are at the edge of the grey box. 

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I understand that the SAS has only so much authority, but what I don't understand is exactly what is it trying to "correct"? A couple of times I established myself in a fairly stable hover or descent and when I trim the SAS starts beeping, after about 10 seconds it stops, sometimes this repeats itself eventually stopping. 

I get the feeling the SAS is fighting me but I'm not sure what it doesn't like. Perhaps I trim the pedals a bit too far in one direction and it wants to counteract this and finds it doesn't have authority and only when I retrim closer to where it thinks they should be displaced it stops the saturation alarm?

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I've not tested it much yet but I think I'm finding the sas saturation warning noise incredibly annoying. I get it and don't even see the text message. Check CTRL and ENTER and there's no obvious saturation there.  To be honest I wish I could just turn that noise off as I was happy without it and it gives me a headache in headphones 🙂  Is there a way to mute or turn it down a bit?

On another note, I'm absolutely sure I was trimming to a near hover, pressing ATT HOLD and then able to hands off before this latest patch?? I think it's just got a bit better at a true hover now. As opposed to a bit of drift.

Update: Turns out the sas text message just doesnt stay very long so I wasnt sure if thats what the long tone is. I've been told in discord by a real pilot that the long tone is not realistic. So I've found it and modded to be a nice cow moo for now.


Edited by mbits
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I flew a few missions last night and occasionally when I have ATT engaged and I want to adjust slightly if I press the trim button again the chopper goes crazy and I have to quickly hit the trim reset and try not to crash. It doesn't do it all the time so wondering if its something specific to my controls but definitely some behavior it was not doing previously.

 

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On 5/19/2022 at 10:43 PM, monkie said:

I understand that the SAS has only so much authority, but what I don't understand is exactly what is it trying to "correct"? A couple of times I established myself in a fairly stable hover or descent and when I trim the SAS starts beeping, after about 10 seconds it stops, sometimes this repeats itself eventually stopping. 

I get the feeling the SAS is fighting me but I'm not sure what it doesn't like. Perhaps I trim the pedals a bit too far in one direction and it wants to counteract this and finds it doesn't have authority and only when I retrim closer to where it thinks they should be displaced it stops the saturation alarm?

Yea I noticed something similar. When ATT hold is in velocity hold submode  (between 5 and 40 knots)  then the SAS will absolutely fight every correction you try to make with the cyclic ... until it saturates and emits the warning sound. 

I think the correct procedure would be to press and hold the force trim release button, make corrections then release the button again. If I understand correctly that SHOULD temporarily disable the hold functionality of the SAS (but not the dampening functionality). But this is not how it currently works in DCS: holding the force trim release currently seems to completely disable the SAS. If you want to keep ATT hold on, this basically only leaves you the choice if you prefer to fight the SAS or you rather want to fight the raw helicopter, both of which are.. not optimal. 🙂 I hope this is addressed soon.


Edited by cow_art
correct terminology
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2 hours ago, N.A.S.H. said:

Press and hold trim (FTR )button for 3 seconds to re-center SAS if you have SAS saturated msg.

Good to know, I'll try it. In my last "Dixmude campaign mission" I had to fly with SAS saturated message every 3 s, even if beeing always in middle of grey boxes...Trim reset did not help.


Edited by lefuneste01

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3 hours ago, cow_art said:

Yea I noticed something similar. When ATT hold is in velocity hold submode  (between 5 and 40 knots)  then the SAS will absolutely fight every correction you try to make with the cyclic ... until it runs out of authority and emits the warning sound. 

I think the correct procedure would be to press and hold the force trim release button, make corrections then release the button again. If I understand correctly that SHOULD temporarily disable the hold functionality of the SAS (but not the dampening functionality). But this is not how it currently works in DCS: holding the force trim release currently seems to completely disable the SAS. If you want to keep ATT hold on, this basically only leaves you the choice if you prefer to fight the SAS or you rather want to fight the raw helicopter, both of which are.. not optimal. 🙂 I hope this is addressed soon.

 

This clears many things... Thanks! Should be interesting to know by someone with real experience if "SAS fighting our inputs" is a real behavior of this beautiful beast or just a wip... Anyway practice Is the key, im trying to catch all the elipads of and airport jumping from one to another with minimum bumping and as fast as I can.. I learned It's a funny way to learn fine and smooth my inputs!

I'm struggling with this:

😭


Edited by grifo
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39 minutes ago, grifo said:

Should be interesting to know by someone with real experience if "SAS fighting our inputs" is a real behavior of this beautiful beast or just a wip...

 

Yes absolutely!  I am not a real pilot, it's only how I currently  _THINK_ it might work (based on common sense and a few SME comments i have seen on the forums). It sure would be great if someone with actual knowledge of the Apache could comment on how it is supposed to work and how actual procedures look like. I'm always happy to be proven wrong, no better way to learn 🙂

Great video btw, I sure need a lot more practice 🙂

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