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AH-64D - Controls gone whacky since OpenBeta 2.7.14.23966


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IMHO I think the important thing with this feedback thread is that it there is a belief that things have changed with exactly the same hardware, controller settings and light conditions. Certainly adding pedals and getting better controllers can help those struggling but this is more about those who weren't but are finding it harder (or at least different) than before.

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AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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10 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

IMHO I think the important thing with this feedback thread is that it there is a belief that things have changed with exactly the same hardware, controller settings and light conditions. Certainly adding pedals and getting better controllers can help those struggling but this is more about those who weren't but are finding it harder (or at least different) than before.

Yeah. Really struggling here. Night and day for stability etc for all the reasons discussed. I appreciate the advice but most of it is stuff the majority of us already knew. This is about a distinct change between patches.  if I revert I'm fully in control and enjoying missions.  Let it update I'm rocking all over like a boat in choppy waters and not helped by the new iteration of att hold.


Edited by mbits
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I am not sure if I am perhaps getting used to the latest beta, but I did just manage to get through a mission, mostly, and the controls 'seemed' to be OK. I did have to delete the entire View folder to reset everything view related. I did this to ensure that I was looking through the windscreen at the right angle

Folder I deleted before trying the flight was  

D:\Program Files\DCS World OpenBeta\Config\View

I literally deleted the entire 'View' folder. If you are going to try that though, ensure you look up what this will do, I am not sure what it resets other than the default view, so please research it prior to my suggestion

Toni

Toni Carrera (Ice Rhino)

 

ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog Throttle & A10C Stick, ThrustMaster F/A-18C Stick, ThrustMaster TFRP Pedals, ThrustMaster Cougars x 2, fitted to CubeSim USB Screens, TrackIR 4 Active LED & Cap Reflector, Stream Deck XL

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If anyone wants to see quite how drastic it is (or isnt) for them. You can revert to the previous one.

(copy your savedgames dcs folder first. this is at your own risk.)
(open a command prompt) cmd
cd d:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin>  (or whereever you installed the game)
dcs_updater.exe update 2.7.12@openbeta

Then say no to updating if it asks when you start.

When you want to return to the latest for testing you just allow it to update on starting, or run the DCS updater.

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15 hours ago, mbits said:

Yeah. Really struggling here. Night and day for stability etc for all the reasons discussed. I appreciate the advice but most of it is stuff the majority of us already knew. This is about a distinct change between patches.  if I revert I'm fully in control and enjoying missions.  Let it update I'm rocking all over like a boat in choppy waters and not helped by the new iteration of att hold.

 

I agree...seeing the same thing...I say give us a patch with the old FM and new auto pilot combined...if that's possible

MODUALS OWNED       AH-64D APACHE, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Mi-24,Gazelle, FC3, A-10C, A-10CII, Mirage 2000C, F-14 TOMCAT, F/A-18C HORNET, F-16C VIPER, AV-8B/NA, F-15 E, F-4 Phantom, MiG-21Bis, L-39, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, MiG-19, F-86, MiG-15Bis, Spitfire IX, Bf-109K, Fw-190D, P-51D, CA, SYRIA, NEVADA, NORMANDY, PERSIAN GULF, MARIANA ISLANDS,SUPER CARRIER, WORLD WAR II ASSETS PACK, HAWK T1

SYSTEM SPECS            AMD  7600X 4.7 Ghz CPU , MSI RX 6750 12 gig GPU ,32 gig ram on Win11 64bit.

 

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Maybe its me imagining things but I thought, even though the patch released today doesn't mention anything about this I'll give it a try as they are probably still working on it.  First test flight just now I didnt get a long warning in 5 mins and landed twice where I wanted to.  Too early to say but I'd be interested if anyone thinks it's improved a little.


Edited by mbits
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I know it sounds weird, but since deleting the View folder as previously mentioned, I have a lot more control. So it is either that, or I have adapted very quickly to how it now handles

I certainly know there is/was a problem, or I would have never started the thread in the first place

Toni

 

Toni Carrera (Ice Rhino)

 

ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog Throttle & A10C Stick, ThrustMaster F/A-18C Stick, ThrustMaster TFRP Pedals, ThrustMaster Cougars x 2, fitted to CubeSim USB Screens, TrackIR 4 Active LED & Cap Reflector, Stream Deck XL

Intel® Core™ i7-5820K 12 Core Processor, 32GB RAM, 1 x 500GB SSD, 2 x 256GB SSD, 1 x 1TB SSD 4 x 4TB Western Digital Mechanical. 2 x ASUS GTX 1080's SLI, ASUS 29" Ultrawide flanked by 2 x 22" IPS Monitors

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Funny thing today with AI George. I gave control over to him to hover above the coastal cliff in Marianas. He kept rolling over like a boat capsizing. Very strange. I had to take over the controls. As for the SCAS beeping, I noticed it happens to George too.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600X | Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC 8GB | 32GB Adata Spectrix D50 3600 Mhz (16x2) | Asus B550 TUF Plus Gaming | 2TB Aorus Gen4
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2 hours ago, mbits said:

Maybe its me imagining things but I thought, even though the patch released today doesn't mention anything about this I'll give it a try as they are probably still working on it.  First test flight just now I didnt get a long warning in 5 mins and landed twice where I wanted to.  Too early to say but I'd be interested if anyone thinks it's improved a little.

 

I thought the same thing as well

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MODUALS OWNED       AH-64D APACHE, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Mi-24,Gazelle, FC3, A-10C, A-10CII, Mirage 2000C, F-14 TOMCAT, F/A-18C HORNET, F-16C VIPER, AV-8B/NA, F-15 E, F-4 Phantom, MiG-21Bis, L-39, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, MiG-19, F-86, MiG-15Bis, Spitfire IX, Bf-109K, Fw-190D, P-51D, CA, SYRIA, NEVADA, NORMANDY, PERSIAN GULF, MARIANA ISLANDS,SUPER CARRIER, WORLD WAR II ASSETS PACK, HAWK T1

SYSTEM SPECS            AMD  7600X 4.7 Ghz CPU , MSI RX 6750 12 gig GPU ,32 gig ram on Win11 64bit.

 

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@GrEaSeLiTeNiN That almost sounds like George was having the same problem as OP and others have have posted on here with similar issues, albeit stationary for George this time around

Toni

 

Toni Carrera (Ice Rhino)

 

ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog Throttle & A10C Stick, ThrustMaster F/A-18C Stick, ThrustMaster TFRP Pedals, ThrustMaster Cougars x 2, fitted to CubeSim USB Screens, TrackIR 4 Active LED & Cap Reflector, Stream Deck XL

Intel® Core™ i7-5820K 12 Core Processor, 32GB RAM, 1 x 500GB SSD, 2 x 256GB SSD, 1 x 1TB SSD 4 x 4TB Western Digital Mechanical. 2 x ASUS GTX 1080's SLI, ASUS 29" Ultrawide flanked by 2 x 22" IPS Monitors

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I do not really.

I noticed no difference between before the last update and now.

Attitude hold is superior in hover but that is about it.

Flying too fast above 125 knots (231 Km/h) increases roll instability like it did before.

130 - 135 Knots (240 Km/h - 250 Km/h) gets really wobbly in the roll axis but this was the same as before.... but controllable all the same.

Out of interest, I do a full DCS file repair for any AH-64D update.


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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44 minutes ago, Rogue Trooper said:

I do not really.

I noticed no difference between before the last update and now.

Attitude hold is superior in hover but that is about it.

Flying too fast above 125 knots (231 Km/h) increases roll instability like it did before.

130 - 135 Knots (240 Km/h - 250 Km/h) gets really wobbly in the roll axis but this was the same as before.... but controllable all the same.

Out of interest, I do a full DCS file repair for any AH-64D update.

 

The issues are still there but for me for some reason it's not quite as bad. Still a constant fight against it but I can get near the ground without ploughing into it wrestling the controls. I feel like they've decided it was a bit too easy and made it harder to tame.

I didn't do a repair. I am trying different axis tuning though and new pedals. I used to be able to handle night mission evasive moves but now that's a serious challenge.

Feels like it needs repeating for some here, we're not talking about flying technique/skills. This is about the view that it got relatively harder with 2.7.14.


Edited by mbits
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I seem to have adapted ok post patch. Took me a little bit but now all is well for me. Very much enjoying the improved ATT Hold for a hover.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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1 hour ago, mbits said:

The issues are still there but for me for some reason it's not quite as bad. Still a constant fight against it but I can get near the ground without ploughing into it wrestling the controls. I feel like they've decided it was a bit too easy and made it harder to tame.

I didn't do a repair. I am trying different axis tuning though and new pedals. I used to be able to handle night mission evasive moves but now that's a serious challenge.

Feels like it needs repeating for some here, we're not talking about flying technique/skills. This is about the view that it got relatively harder with 2.7.14.

 

Chopper just seems to hold manually still for me.

I have non centring damped pedals and these are a god send for both the Hind and Apache. it requires physical force to adjust the yaw of both these choppers.

The ATT upgrade from the last patch is light years ahead of the massive work load required for the pilot to hold a hover!

It is critical to do a repair every time there is an upgrade to DCS. I always manually update DCS before I start DCS, if there is an update I repair and then start.


Edited by Rogue Trooper

HP G2 Reverb, Windows 10 VR settings: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, G2 reset to 60Hz refresh rate as standard. OpenXR user, Open XR tool kit disabled. Open XR was a massive upgrade for me.

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo. MT user  (2 - 5 fps gain). DCS run at 60Hz.

Vaicom user. Thrustmaster warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Reality height with brail enhancements to ensure 100% button activation in VR.. Simshaker Jet Pro vibration seat.. Uses data from DCS not sound.... you know when you are dropping into VRS with this bad boy.

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Like most I can adapt to the changes to the point it seems a non issue.

The whole point was that "whoah!" moment the first time of loading the previous patch where previous inputs with the same hardware and settings now produced different results.

That is the point of this thread to try to feedback that there is a change where nothing is documented.

The ATT Hold change is irrelevant to that as that is not the behaviour being discussed (unless the change has introduced other change to the FM when it does become relevant). The ATT Hold update deserves praise but that is a different topic.

That it can reproduced by switching to previous versions or between stable and open beta should be enough to put to bed the discussions about how to fly it or what controllers are needed.

ETA: This is also without using any trim so those settings can be discounted too.

 


Edited by Baldrick33

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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@Baldrick33 Would certainly agree with you about the whole "whoah" moment, that is after all what created my original post. I still find stable easier to work with, but certainly am adapting to the new OpenBeta style, and am getting more and more precise with it

As for Trim, I have not used it since the earlier days when it was a confusing headache for most

Toni

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Toni Carrera (Ice Rhino)

 

ThrustMaster HOTAS Warthog Throttle & A10C Stick, ThrustMaster F/A-18C Stick, ThrustMaster TFRP Pedals, ThrustMaster Cougars x 2, fitted to CubeSim USB Screens, TrackIR 4 Active LED & Cap Reflector, Stream Deck XL

Intel® Core™ i7-5820K 12 Core Processor, 32GB RAM, 1 x 500GB SSD, 2 x 256GB SSD, 1 x 1TB SSD 4 x 4TB Western Digital Mechanical. 2 x ASUS GTX 1080's SLI, ASUS 29" Ultrawide flanked by 2 x 22" IPS Monitors

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