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F-15E Terrain Following


QuiGon

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In the recent MPDs introduction video, I noticed there is a TF page. That lead me to the followng quick questions:
1) Does the F-15E has Terrain Following IRL?
2) If so, will the DCS F-15E have this feature (and thus become the first DCS module that offers terrain following)?
 


Edited by QuiGon

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1 hour ago, Akiazusa said:

 check this,start from 51:58

Thanks, that answers both my questions! :thumbup:

Follow-on question: It sounds like the F-15E is using it's main radar for terrain following. Does that mean the radar can not be used for other purposes (A/A, ground mapping, ...) when in TF mode? The Tornado for example has a dedicated TFR besides its main radar.


Edited by QuiGon

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I believe the Nav/Flir pod has the TFR in the F-15E, same as in the F-16.

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2 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

I believe the Nav/Flir pod has the TFR in the F-15E, same as in the F-16.

Is that still the LANTIRN? I didn't know it includes a radar, but I guess that's the second pod of the LANTIRN system that the Tomcat didn't get?

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52 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Is that still the LANTIRN? I didn't know it includes a radar, but I guess that's the second pod of the LANTIRN system that the Tomcat didn't get?

Yes that’s correct. Technically it’s the AN/AAQ-13 Pod and it’s the right hand of the two pods carried under the Strike Eagle. It can be used in conjunction with other more modern TGPs like the LITENING or SNIPER. It provides the FLIR which can be projected up into the HUD and also the TFR.

Here it is with the Sniper:

image.jpeg


Edited by Deano87
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46 minutes ago, Deano87 said:

Yes that’s correct. Technically it’s the AN/AAQ-13 Pod and it’s the right hand of the two pods carried under the Strike Eagle. It can be used in conjunction with other more modern TGPs like the LITENING or SNIPER. It provides the FLIR which can be projected up into the HUD and also the TFR.

Here it is with the Sniper:

Interesting, thanks! :thumbup:

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/19/2022 at 6:33 AM, QuiGon said:

Does that mean the radar can not be used for other purposes

According to what I read about the radar preceding it, you can multiplex between ag and aa like interleaved mode and you won't notice much if any performance difference.

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2 hours ago, Napillo said:

According to what I read about the radar preceding it, you can multiplex between ag and aa like interleaved mode and you won't notice much if any performance difference.

Uhm, according to what @Deano87 said above, the TFR is a totally seperate radar housed in the LANTIRN pod.

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8 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Uhm, according to what @Deano87 said above, the TFR is a totally seperate radar housed in the LANTIRN pod.

Indeed, the TFR is housed in the Nav pod of the LANTIRN suite.

10 hours ago, Napillo said:

According to what I read about the radar preceding it, you can multiplex between ag and aa like interleaved mode and you won't notice much if any performance difference.

AFAIK, you can not do both at the same time on the APG-70. You can easily alternate between both, and you can use a frozen image of the AG radar while the radar is in AA, discussed in this video:

 

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50 minutes ago, toilet2000 said:

AFAIK, you can not do both at the same time on the APG-70.

if the 63 could do it, I don't doubt the 70 could do it as well, but it may have been one of those things the engineers tested and worked well, but might have had no practical use operationally.

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I always found this LANTIRN designation to be a bit miss leading/messy, because for different platforms the integration was up to a different level. Correct me if I am wrong, but the -14 only got the TGP part of it, the F-16 got the TGP and the FLIR part of it, the F-15E could carry all parts of it (TGP pod, FLIR pod & TFR pod)

A podded solution should mean that the main radar should be fully usable while the TFR pod is doing its stuff, expect there is some interference going on.

In the Tornado for example there is the CSU (central suppression unit), taking care of intereference between emissions (for example your RWR is not seeing your own radar emissions, etc.)
 

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13 minutes ago, Bananabrai said:

I always found this LANTIRN designation to be a bit miss leading/messy, because for different platforms the integration was up to a different level. Correct me if I am wrong, but the -14 only got the TGP part of it, the F-16 got the TGP and the FLIR part of it, the F-15E could carry all parts of it (TGP pod, FLIR pod & TFR pod)

A podded solution should mean that the main radar should be fully usable while the TFR pod is doing its stuff, expect there is some interference going on.

In the Tornado for example there is the CSU (central suppression unit), taking care of intereference between emissions (for example your RWR is not seeing your own radar emissions, etc.)
 

Hmm, I thought the F-16 also got the full LANTIRN part. At least I'm pretty sure that there was TFR capability in some F-16s (Block 30 I think) and I thought that came from the LANTIRN.

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4 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Hmm, I thought the F-16 also got the full LANTIRN part. At least I'm pretty sure that there was TFR capability in some F-16s (Block 30 I think) and I thought that came from the LANTIRN.

True, the F-16 also got the full integration of AN/AAQ-13 and -14, but the confusing thing for me was always that both are sometimes just refered as "LANTIRN pod" 

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15 minutes ago, Bananabrai said:

True, the F-16 also got the full integration of AN/AAQ-13 and -14, but the confusing thing for me was always that both are sometimes just refered as "LANTIRN pod" 

Yeah, I try to refer to it as the "LANTIRN system" :thumbup:

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14 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Hmm, I thought the F-16 also got the full LANTIRN part. At least I'm pretty sure that there was TFR capability in some F-16s (Block 30 I think) and I thought that came from the LANTIRN.

14 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

True, the F-16 also got the full integration of AN/AAQ-13 and -14, but the confusing thing for me was always that both are sometimes just refered as "LANTIRN pod" 

Just to clarify it was the block 40/42 that originally had the full up system.  As Kirk alluded in other threads the TFR low level LGB delivery was a little much for a single pilot and only really stuck with the Mud Hen community.  That being said, Hill deployed block 40's to ODS with the nav pods, Keith Rosenkranz wrote a book Vipers in the Storm about that.  Post ODS medium level was the name of the game and no one wanted the weight and drag of the nav pod on a Viper, Mud Hens not so much of a big deal.

Other blocks got Tpods in other updates.


Edited by mkellytx
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21 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

True, the F-16 also got the full integration of AN/AAQ-13 and -14, but the confusing thing for me was always that both are sometimes just refered as "LANTIRN pod" 

Block 40 did have TFR, indeed, you can see the "ADV" pushbutton in our Block 52 and the flyup override switch, which are for the TFR-coupled autopilot. I don't know whether the Block 52 could be outfitted such, but it's no longer done. TFR is part of the navpod, so unless the software doesn't support it, whenever you get FLIR, you get TFR (unless you're using the export version with TFR taken out).

The Tomcat, got the LANTIRN TGP just to be able to drop LGBs. The Tomcat's version was actually somewhat improved, and had to be modified to function well on its own, as opposed to working in tandem with the navpod. It's not the same pod as the Vipers and Mudhens were using.

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On 6/27/2022 at 7:45 AM, Bananabrai said:

I always found this LANTIRN designation to be a bit miss leading/messy, because for different platforms the integration was up to a different level. Correct me if I am wrong, but the -14 only got the TGP part of it, the F-16 got the TGP and the FLIR part of it, the F-15E could carry all parts of it (TGP pod, FLIR pod & TFR pod)

A podded solution should mean that the main radar should be fully usable while the TFR pod is doing its stuff, expect there is some interference going on.

In the Tornado for example there is the CSU (central suppression unit), taking care of intereference between emissions (for example your RWR is not seeing your own radar emissions, etc.)
 

Nav FLIR and TFR are relative to the same pod. Same goes for any jet that pod was incorporated in to. Top half is the FINS which houses the FLIR and bottom is the TFR that houses the antennae.  
 

And yes, the jets are able to navigate around most interference problems by timing out things. 

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On 6/28/2022 at 11:49 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

Block 40 did have TFR, indeed, you can see the "ADV" pushbutton in our Block 52 and the flyup override switch, which are for the TFR-coupled autopilot. I don't know whether the Block 52 could be outfitted such, but it's no longer done. TFR is part of the navpod, so unless the software doesn't support it, whenever you get FLIR, you get TFR (unless you're using the export version with TFR taken out).

The Tomcat, got the LANTIRN TGP just to be able to drop LGBs. The Tomcat's version was actually somewhat improved, and had to be modified to function well on its own, as opposed to working in tandem with the navpod. It's not the same pod as the Vipers and Mudhens were using.

First of all, there seems to be some confusion in this thread regarding the LANTIRN system. There are two LANTIRN pods; the AN/AAQ-13 Navigation Pod which contains both the terrain following radar (TFR) as well as the forward looking infra-red (FLIR) which can be repeated onto the HUD (much like the DCS AV-8B). Then you have the AN/AAQ-14 Targeting Pod which is a regular TGP. So just be aware that, when it comes to the LANTIRN system, the term FLIR refers to the AN/AAQ-13 Navigation Pod, not the AN/AAQ-14 Targeting Pod or any other pod.

And to answer your question, the F-16C Block 50/52 fully supports the LANTIRN system, it's just that the AN/AAQ-13 isn't used by the USAF Block 50/52s. You can see plenty of block 50/52/+ export vipers carrying both LANTIRN pods and even opting to have the WAR HUD from the block 40s installed on their 50/52/+ vipers. Also, since the CCIP upgrades of the F-16 fleet, block 40/42 and 50/52 are identical when it comes to software. Even the old export F-16A/B MLUs run basically the same software nowadays as the block 50/52 with a few minor differences depending on the operators integration of domestic weapons/avionics.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/30/2022 at 10:14 AM, WHOGX5 said:

And to answer your question, the F-16C Block 50/52 fully supports the LANTIRN system, it's just that the AN/AAQ-13 isn't used by the USAF Block 50/52s. You can see plenty of block 50/52/+ export vipers carrying both LANTIRN pods and even opting to have the WAR HUD from the block 40s installed on their 50/52/+ vipers. Also, since the CCIP upgrades of the F-16 fleet, block 40/42 and 50/52 are identical when it comes to software. Even the old export F-16A/B MLUs run basically the same software nowadays as the block 50/52 with a few minor differences depending on the operators integration of domestic weapons/avionics.

Reading this makes me sad. Thanks for clarification!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/23/2022 at 11:03 AM, Napillo said:

if the 63 could do it, I don't doubt the 70 could do it as well, but it may have been one of those things the engineers tested and worked well, but might have had no practical use operationally.

By APG-63, do you mean the AESA APG-63(v2) and (v3)... BC those are going to be way better than the APG-70 

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