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Varjo delivers clearer distant objects?


GunSlingerOZ

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So, now that I have OpenXR rocking nicely, I'm really enjoying VR in DCS with my G2. Being able to get a smooth experience at 30fps is revelatory. One issue though is that the resolution means that distant objects are quite indistinct. My question to Varjo users is twofold:

a) Does the Varjo experience feel as smooth as the Reverb G2 with OpenXR?

b) Are you able to make out distant objects more clearly as a result of the Varjo's increased resolution?

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, GunSlingerOZ said:

So, now that I have OpenXR rocking nicely, I'm really enjoying VR in DCS with my G2. Being able to get a smooth experience at 30fps is revelatory. One issue though is that the resolution means that distant objects are quite indistinct. My question to Varjo users is twofold:

a) Does the Varjo experience feel as smooth as the Reverb G2 with OpenXR?

b) Are you able to make out distant objects more clearly as a result of the Varjo's increased resolution?

Thanks!

a) no idea, don't have a G2.

b) at the Highest setting which is what I've been using currently, the image clarity is the same as my 4KTV and that includes shimmering (pretty much none) and distant spotting.  But it is quite a performance hog in this mode as the default horizontal res is >4K, so I'm undersampling with OpenXR Toolkit at ~3800 horizontal pixels currently (OpenXR), for MP I might reduce it a bit to around 33-3400 pixels.  General clarity alone doesn't make a great HMD, imo, it's the edge to edge clarity that is more important.  Vertical edge to edge clarity for me is 98-99% (display area that is in optimal focus), horizontal edge to edge is around 95%--note that I'm using lens inserts so if you wear glasses this will be lowered.

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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Hmm, how can you say it's the same as a 4K TV, when it's actually 30% fewer pixels? Are you saying it "feels" the same as a 4K TV from your subjective experience? Each eye would need to have 3840 x 2160 pixels to actually field identical clarity to a 4K TV, wouldn't it? And the distance you sit from your 4K TV would also be influential, as this would dictate how well you can resolve individual pixels. For example, I sit approximately 1m back from my 55" 4K OLED when flying in 2D - I would easily resolve single pixels better than someone sitting 3m away.


Edited by GunSlingerOZ
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I'm not sure what else to tell you, but I also have a 55 in 4K OLED 1.5m in front of me for comparison with the setup.  It's not going to be the exact same of course as we're comparing apples and oranges.  At the Highest setting the rendering res is 4148x3556 pixels for each eye (more complex if foveation option is on in supported apps)--while the actual panel resolution is less, you know upsampling works really well in VR vs flatscreen.  These are also not true but compressed pixels via NVIDIA DSC tech to make it a bit more complex due to the bandwidth limit.  However, for the purpose of gaming I cannot tell the difference in clarity between the two.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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9 hours ago, GunSlingerOZ said:

Hmm, how can you say it's the same as a 4K TV, when it's actually 30% fewer pixels? Are you saying it "feels" the same as a 4K TV from your subjective experience? Each eye would need to have 3840 x 2160 pixels to actually field identical clarity to a 4K TV, wouldn't it? And the distance you sit from your 4K TV would also be influential, as this would dictate how well you can resolve individual pixels. For example, I sit approximately 1m back from my 55" 4K OLED when flying in 2D - I would easily resolve single pixels better than someone sitting 3m away.

 

 

Your OP asked how it "feels"...

I will stay away from this one, and just say I love and enjoy my Aero very much. Have fun,

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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20 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Your OP asked how it "feels"...

I will stay away from this one, and just say I love and enjoy my Aero very much. Have fun,

Yep, I was referring to how smooth the fps feels - 30fps on the G2 with OpenXR is rather incredible. Prior to OpenXR, I needed 60fps, with the HMD set to 60Hz, to get a similar sensation of fluidity. If I can get that kind of sensation in terms of fluidity, but with much higher resolution on the Varjo Aero, I may be tempted to blow the AU$3500 required for one. 

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I'm staying out as well, not really into recommending people for or against buying things.

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PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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37 minutes ago, ddc196 said:

Food for thought.

Only thing I will say to correct something is that video was made back in Dec and the distortion he is talking about has for the most part been taken care of already with a new distortion profile. Yeah early on it had an issue with distortion.

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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19 hours ago, Supmua said:

 

b) at the Highest setting which is what I've been using currently, the image clarity is the same as my 4KTV and that includes shimmering (pretty much none) and distant spotting.  But it is quite a performance hog in this mode as the default horizontal res is >4K, so I'm undersampling with OpenXR Toolkit at ~3800 horizontal pixels currently (OpenXR), for MP I might reduce it a bit to around 33-3400 pixels.  General clarity alone doesn't make a great HMD, imo, it's the edge to edge clarity that is more important.  Vertical edge to edge clarity for me is 98-99% (display area that is in optimal focus), horizontal edge to edge is around 95%--note that I'm using lens inserts so if you wear glasses this will be lowered.

So you have gone back to using Open XR with DCS now? I have not tried since that initial time I did and was not all that impressed by it with DCS. Have been back to using Steam VR ever since. I could not imagine trying to run at highest Varjo Base setting.  Love using the Toolkit with MSFS 2020 but that has native Open XR support. 


Edited by dburne

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

So you have gone back to using Open XR with DCS now? I have not tried since that initial time I did and was not all that impressed by it with DCS. Have been back to using Steam VR ever since. I could not imagine trying to run at highest Varjo Base setting.  Love using the Toolkit with MSFS 2020 but that has native Open XR support. 

 

I’m still going back and forth to make sure things are working well using both methods with DCS, this week is the OpenXR week for me.  
 

You can easily run the Aero at highest settings, because of the video compression it doesn’t tax the system as much as the true uncompressed resolution would.  Just have to make sure to downsample via in-game rendering resolution to get acceptable fps for a particular game.  For example, in OpenXR I would set custom res via the toolkit and in SteamVR I would use per app custom res also.  For desktop viewing such as movie watching, highest setting is optimal and it doesn’t really tax your system much (even with 1.3-1.4x supersampling you will still get smooth 90 fps).  I’ve been playing nonVR games on the headset like this, the new Vampire Masquerade adventure game looks really good on the Aero.  Besides that, a lot of games can be played in side-by-side 3D stereoscopy mode via Vorpx or Reshade5.


Edited by Supmua

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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8 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I’m still going back and forth to make sure things are working well using both methods with DCS, this week is the OpenXR week for me.  
 

You can easily run the Aero at highest settings, because of the video compression it doesn’t tax the system as much as the true uncompressed resolution would.  Just have to make sure to downsample via in-game rendering resolution to get acceptable fps for a particular game.  For example, in OpenXR I would set custom res via the toolkit and in SteamVR I would use per app custom res also.  For desktop viewing such as movie watching, highest setting is optimal and it doesn’t really tax your system much (even with 1.3-1.4x supersampling you will still get smooth 90 fps).  I’ve been playing nonVR games on the headset like this, the new Vampire Masquerade adventure game looks really good on the Aero.  Besides that, a lot of games can be played in side-by-side 3D stereoscopy mode via Vorpx or Reshade5.

 

 

Ok thanks for the info I will play around with the different base settings some more. What's a little more tweaking LOL. I have been pretty happy with my current settings using the High base setting and lowering Steam VR res down to like 90%. I will probably still stay away from the Open XR Mod though.


Edited by dburne

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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I had G2, then VP2, now Varjo.

Clarity bump with Varjo is dramatic, however you need the top of the top system to fully appreciate it, i.e. 3090, fast ram, latest cpu, etc. Meaning if you're running 1080p on Varjo it will look like 1080p, hence you need all of the resolution you can get to reach the experience.

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I find that Higher setting is optimal for DCS in terms of performance and visual quality, but I just leave it at Highest since my headset is now used as a regular monitor these days.  Once you reduce the per-game rendering res appropriately for a particular game, the performance is the same.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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13 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I find that Higher setting is optimal for DCS in terms of performance and visual quality, but I just leave it at Highest since my headset is now used as a regular monitor these days.  Once you reduce the per-game rendering res appropriately for a particular game, the performance is the same.

Yeah reading your results that is kind of where I am  now as well, just leave it at highest and adjust per game.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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