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Laser Spot Track from Pilot Seat in MP?


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  • ED Team
4 hours ago, Recluse said:

I don't think you should be able to see the Laser only  in NVG.  For JTAC there is the option of IR pointer or IR Pointer + Laser.

Correct, the laser LRFD shouldn't be seen under NVGs. Laser designators are not the same as IR pointers.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Raptor9:

Correct, the laser LRFD shouldn't be seen under NVGs. Laser designators are not the same as IR pointers.

Sry to be further "of topic" but my question fits to the last conversation: as far as i could read up, you can also not see IR Pointer in PNVS or TADS because both are infrared cameras (thermal imaging) with an other wavelenght then the near-infrared devices (like NODs/NVGs) which can see an IR Pointer. Am i correct?

If yes, it really is a letdown for CCA missions, like when inf gets ambushed or something and you cant really tell who is who. I would really much like to either see their IR pointers in my TADS/PNVS while having the IHADSS up or having IHADSS-like symbology in the NVG. But i guess there are tactics and ways to overcome this "problem" or there are invetions in later models. Still, night missions in the AH64 in DCS are lovely 🙂

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6 hours ago, Recluse said:

I don't think you should be able to see the Laser only  in NVG.  For JTAC there is the option of IR pointer or IR Pointer + Laser.

I saw the pointer in Dixmude campaign adapted for AH64. It was the same for the Gazelle.

But I never saw the laser from the AH64 when firing Hellfire. So maybe the creator use the IR pointer in JTAC option (the laser was visible in NVG as shown in the screenshot).

4 minutes ago, Kharrn said:

Sry to be further "of topic" but my question fits to the last conversation: as far as i could read up, you can also not see IR Pointer in PNVS or TADS because both are infrared cameras (thermal imaging) with an other wavelenght then the near-infrared devices (like NODs/NVGs) which can see an IR Pointer. Am i correct?

If yes, it really is a letdown for CCA missions, like when inf gets ambushed or something and you cant really tell who is who. I would really much like to either see their IR pointers in my TADS/PNVS while having the IHADSS up or having IHADSS-like symbology in the NVG. But i guess there are tactics and ways to overcome this "problem" or there are invetions in later models. Still, night missions in the AH64 in DCS are lovely 🙂

I had to switch to NVG, slave the TADS roughly where the laser was pointing, and then search with TADS. I should have use the seeker option to slave TADS to laser...

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8 hours ago, spikenet said:

In NVG, try that mission I created, its night and all JTAC designated targets. Its so cool doing night ops in this chopper!

Ok, I checked and looks ok, I see it in NVG, not in PNVS. In mission you have wrong MGRS format (for KU of Apache) but if you know what to do its not a problem. 😉

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Interesting. I looked at the mission and it is using CTLD script for the JTACS. I don't really know much about it, but I GUESS that the CTLD autolase must have the IR POINTER active at the same time.  I will try it with the Mission Editor built in JTAC with LASER ONLY and see if I can see anything in NVG's.  You really SHOULDN'T see the Laser at all unless it is paired with the IR pointer.

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31 minutes ago, Recluse said:

I GUESS that the CTLD autolase must have the IR POINTER active at the same time

I looked it up and your correct, IR and Laser point. Sorry for the confusion 🙂

"The script allows a JTAC to mark and hold an IR and Laser point on a target allowing TGP's to lock onto the lase and ease of target location using NV Goggles."

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I guess I am gonna have to learn how to use CTLD 🙂  My Mission Editor JTACS are not very consistent in how they are working.

 

As pointed out above, though, it would seem like a bug that PNVS and TADS FLIR don't show the IR pointer.

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3 minutes ago, Recluse said:

I guess I am gonna have to learn how to use CTLD 🙂  My Mission Editor JTACS are not very consistent in how they are working.

 

As pointed out above, though, it would seem like a bug that PNVS and TADS FLIR don't show the IR pointer.

Flir does not see a nvg ir pointer,  only way for that to happen is a flir has nvg superimposed onto it,  I’m sure the Apache guys will chip in about the new birds having that ability.  For example us ground guys had a nvg that was both thermal and nvg so such things could happen.


Edited by rcjonessnp175

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5 minutes ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

Flir does not see a nvg ir pointer,  only way for that to happen is a flir has nvg superimposed onto it,  I’m sure the Apache guys will chip in about the new birds having that ability.  For example us ground guys had a nvg that was both thermal and nvg so such things could happen.

 

Thanks for the info.  I guess not all Night Vision is created equal 🙂

 

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2 hours ago, YoYo said:

In mission you have wrong MGRS format (for KU of Apache) but if you know what to do its not a problem.

I'm not sure how to correct that, is it an issue or are the targets just in a different 100,000-meter square identification zone?

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In the Apache, the MGRS format has 4 digits instead of 5 in each coordinate.  To enter points in the KU, you pretty much just drop the last digit from each   IT gets you "close enough" usually.  CTLD script can PROBABLY be tweaked, but I wouldn't know how.

 

I assume that is what YOYO meant.. I didn't fly the mission (LOL... I did but kept crashing before I could lift off the FARP)  so I am not sure if there is another place where MGRS is given. 

 

 
Quote

 

Pinned by RedKite

 

Do NOT round MGRS. Especially with 3 or less digits per Easting/Northing. MGRS represents an AREA not a POINT. Just remove the digits at the end of each block, first block being Easting, second Northing. The 36 S part is the grid ID, though some DCS maps have two adjacent grids so you need to make sure you are not in an area near the border between those, then it is important to verify the grid. The next two characters XA is a grid square describing a 100 KM x 100 KM area(!), then each digit in the Easting and Northing blocks as a pair describe a a tenth of that area, XA 11 is a 10 KM x 10 KM area, XA 12 12 a 1 KM x 1 KM , etc. XA 8339 6903 is a 10m x 10m area with its southwestern corner at 83,390m east and 69,030m north from the XA grids western and southern border (visualize this on the F10 map with the squares showing). Though in this case we are just a couple meters of by rounding, it is a couple hundred meters with 6 digits. So if you get a request to "search" (rounded) XA 8335 6904 you start looking at 834 690 which is 60m off to the northeast. 4 digits and we talk about 600m off... and you assume you need to search to the north and east from the MGRS grid you get. So TLDR: do not round MGRS, always cut to the required digits per block.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Recluse
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5 minutes ago, Recluse said:

MGRS format has 4 digits instead of 5 in each coordinate

yep ok, CTLD does give you 10 digits. as you say drop the last digit and its resolution is to ten meters, that is fine for getting the MSL heading to the TGT. I'll have a look in the script and see if can change it to 8 digits.

Interesting you are getting a crash, I was having some problems before the latest OB I reported and they fixed something internally, was an issue when doing a CAQ

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Just now, spikenet said:

yep ok, CTLD does give you 10 digits. as you say drop the last digit and its resolution is to ten meters, that is fine for getting the MSL heading to the TGT. I'll have a look in the script and see if can change it to 8 digits.

Interesting you are getting a crash, I was having some problems before the latest OB I reported and they fixed something internally, was an issue when doing a CAQ

LOL... not a DCS crash... a "CAN'T TAKE OFF FROM THE FARP WITHOUT HITTING SOMETHING AH-64D Crash"

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1 minute ago, Recluse said:

LOL... not a DCS crash... a "CAN'T TAKE OFF FROM THE FARP WITHOUT HITTING SOMETHING AH-64D Crash"

Ah yeah, its a sticky FARP that one... haha

I hope they sort out that problem, I find anytime taking off from invisible FARP I have to be super careful not to get a dynamic rollover. I'm sure that is a bug and not realistic.

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7 hours ago, Kharrn said:

as far as i could read up, you can also not see IR Pointer in PNVS or TADS because both are infrared cameras (thermal imaging) with an other wavelenght then the near-infrared devices (like NODs/NVGs) which can see an IR Pointer. Am i correct?

Yes.

7 hours ago, Kharrn said:

If yes, it really is a letdown for CCA missions, like when inf gets ambushed or something and you cant really tell who is who. I would really much like to either see their IR pointers in my TADS/PNVS while having the IHADSS up or having IHADSS-like symbology in the NVG. But i guess there are tactics and ways to overcome this "problem"

It all comes down to building and maintaining situational awareness with what tools you have, including radio comms; and typically in such situations when operating in close proximity to friendly troops with IR pointers/beacons, the CPG would be wearing NVG's. You can then slave the TADS to where you are looking, and then use the TEDAC to aim the FLIR for targeting.  It's something that used to be practiced often because of these very reasons. It's not as precise, and in DCS it doesn't translate well to be able to look under the NVG's at the TEDAC screen.

3 hours ago, Recluse said:

 it would seem like a bug that PNVS and TADS FLIR don't show the IR pointer.

It's not.


Edited by Raptor9
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2 hours ago, spikenet said:

Ah yeah, its a sticky FARP that one... haha

I hope they sort out that problem, I find anytime taking off from invisible FARP I have to be super careful not to get a dynamic rollover. I'm sure that is a bug and not realistic.

FInally managed to get unstuck and flew the mission. First night mission ever. Wow.. its a whole new world. Got all the targets (second attempt) using the SKR ACQ trick and punching in MGRS to orient in the right direction to pick it up. In VR, there was enough ambient light that I didn't use the NVG's though I did put on the PNVS a few times just to experience it. Really had to crank down the brightness or it was overwhelming.

 

Edit: Flew it again with NVG just to see the IR pointer to orient better.  Couldn't fly very long without my IHADSS symbology, though, so I had to switch back.

 


Edited by Recluse
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Not to be "that guy", and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just addressing the "expectations versus reality" aspect of the laser vs optics discussion...

A lot of people through no fault of their own have unrealistic impressions of how some things in real-life should be, when viewed through the lens of a DCS player.  As an example, a common statement I hear to justify the usage of labels in DCS is that other aircraft or vehicles on the ground are too difficult to see unless you are extremely close. Well, that is exactly how it is in real life; in fact in some scenarios it is actually easier to spot targets in DCS compared to real life, even without labels. It can be very difficult, and that is why camouflage is still used to this day, even with all the high-tech gadgets and sensors on the modern battlefield.

Likewise, there are a lot of limitations that real-world aviators have to deal with that seem inconvenient in DCS. Not everything in aviation/military that is bought by the bean-counters is the best tool to perform a task, not all aircraft are fully optimized for the missions they get tasked to perform during their lifespans, and very few things are fully equal.  You could mount an identical piece of equipment like a targeting pod or radio on two different aircraft and have drastically different results in terms of performance or even the ergonomics of the cockpit interface. This comes up often when discussing various datalinks and why some aircraft aren't compatible with others.  Even within Link-16-capable aircraft, there can be significant differences in what types of information can flow between different aircraft types, even though they are both on the same Link-16 network.

I'm not dogging anybody, I'm just pointing out to no one in particular that what DCS simulates is the tip of iceberg to allow a reasonable immersion into combat flight sim gaming; but there is still the entire iceberg below the surface that can't be simulated due to processing/memory limitations, or for the very fact that most of it isn't even known due to security reasons.  Then there's the fringe topics of discussion regarding equipment or capabilities that wikipedia claims is true, or is mentioned to be a certain way in a technical manual, and players take it as gospel without any sort of context or real-world understanding of how it actually is, and then they scream to high heaven about it not being implemented as such in DCS. If I could point out all the typos and inaccurate tidbits in from some of the real-world manuals, we would be here a hot minute.

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7 hours ago, spikenet said:

yep ok, CTLD does give you 10 digits. as you say drop the last digit and its resolution is to ten meters, that is fine for getting the MSL heading to the TGT. I'll have a look in the script and see if can change it to 8 digits.

Interesting you are getting a crash, I was having some problems before the latest OB I reported and they fixed something internally, was an issue when doing a CAQ

Yes, it gives you 2 blocks with 5 digits and KU needs four so you must round the last two (from each block) to one, for example ...324 to 32 or 328 to 33 and will be fine, KU will take it.


Edited by YoYo
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1 hour ago, YoYo said:

Yes, it gives you 2 blocks with 5 digits and KU needs four so you must round the last two to one, for example ...324 to 32 or 328 to 33 and will be fine, KU will take it.

I figured out an edit for CTLD so it displays as required for the KU. I simplified the text message so its less cluttered.

 

image.png

 

Persian Gulf - Nightmoves.miz


Edited by spikenet
changed FARP so you dont get stuck on the ground
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@Raptor9this! Post should be stickied and put in bold on each first page of the forum. Thank you! 🙂 Often limitations that are mostly not in a manual will dictate the tactical usage of equipment. That is my experience from different ground/recon vehicles at least ^^

 

@YoYoI advise against rounding of coordinates. It can get confusing, especially for players not fully understanding how MGRS works. I rather just drop the "not needed" numbers. e.g. 1234 5678 would be 123 567 and still be in a 100x100m square. For GPS bombing, only a 10digit coord should be used (unless you carpet bomb from a B52) 😉

K

 

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Wow great 🙂 ! it could be present a little longer too to have a time to write it on KU (just sugestion if its possible) 🙂

17 minutes ago, spikenet said:

I figured out an edit for CTLD so it displays as required for the KU. I simplified the text message so its less cluttered.

 

image.png

Persian Gulf - Nightmoves.miz 712.02 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

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1 minute ago, YoYo said:

Wow great 🙂 ! it could be present a little longer too to have a time to write it on KU (just sugestion if its possible) 🙂

 

yes it will display for 60 seconds now. I use VR so that gives me time to punch it in!

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Just now, spikenet said:

yes it will display for 60 seconds now. I use VR so that gives me time to punch it in!

I fly VR too, thx, will try Today for practices.

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2 hours ago, spikenet said:

yes it will display for 60 seconds now. I use VR so that gives me time to punch it in!

Hmm as an aside. I fly in VR also (Quest 2). When I put on the NVG's, I am not seeing the Circular NVG area, my entire screen is NVG-like which makes it really easy to fly, but hard to read any cockpit displays. I do have a Shader Mod loaded, which does have some tweaks to NVG's, but I don't think it does this.  Am I missing a setting somewhere???

This thread would seem to indicate others have the issue as well..

 


Edited by Recluse
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41 minutes ago, Recluse said:

Hmm as an aside. I fly in VR also (Quest 2). When I put on the NVG's, I am not seeing the Circular NVG area, my entire screen is NVG-like which makes it really easy to fly, but hard to read any cockpit displays. I do have a Shader Mod loaded, which does have some tweaks to NVG's, but I don't think it does this.  Am I missing a setting somewhere???

This thread would seem to indicate others have the issue as well..

 

 

You can try my mod :

you can resize NVG to your taste by pressing key while in game.

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