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How dependent is the pilot on the WSO?


sirrah

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Haven't been paying much attention to this upcoming module as I got my head in the clouds (or actually just above the tree tops) in the Apache, but the latest video from Growling Sidewinder got me excited.

 

So sorry if this was asked before (it probably has)..

 

In real life, how dependent is the F-15E pilot from the WSO? (and the other way around)

Are we talking Tomcat pilot/RIO here, where one can't pretty much do anything without the other?

Or will it be more like Apache pilot/CPG, where both stations allow the crew to operate "almost" everything (with only a few station specific systems)?

 

Although I pre purchased the Tomcat (without regret), I never really got used to using Jester. As in, I don't really fancy how much he needs me to tell him everything. So I really wonder what to expect for the Strike Eagle. (I totally love Razbam's modules by the way, so I'll probably end up buying anyways 😉)

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There is much much less segregation of duties in the Strike Eagle when compared to the F-14 or even the Apache. Apart from a few switches in the back used to power on various systems both cockpits are equally capable at running the aircraft systems. The rear seat even has a set of flight controls and can fly the aircraft. It should be perfectly possible to fly the aircraft and employ all the sensors and weapon systems from the front seat without the actual need for a human WSO.

Of course to be most effective a human WSO will be the way to go, with good crew coordination deciding who should manage which system/sensor or weapon system.

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1 hour ago, Nahen said:

In F-15E WSO - is a pilot.

Are you sure? I always thought F-15E WSOs, just like F-14 RIOs, are not pilots and despite the set of flight controls in the back are not qualified to fly the aircraft (unlike Apache CPGs, who actually are pilots and are qualified to fly the aircraft)?


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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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9 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Jesteś pewny? Zawsze myślałem, że F-15E WSO, podobnie jak F-14 RIO, nie są pilotami i pomimo zestawu sterów z tyłu nie mają kwalifikacji do pilotowania samolotów (w przeciwieństwie do Apache CPG, którzy w rzeczywistości są pilotami i mają kwalifikacje do pilotowania samolot)?

 

😄 😄 😄 😄

First show me the aircraft guidance kit on the RIO site in the F-14A / B?

Secondly ... I don't even know how to write it ... WSO in the F-15 sits and has some pedals in front of him and some stick and he can't use it ...: 😧 D He's not a pilot ... Sure the second set is "spare" - if the front one breaks down, the pilot and WSO change places: 😧 😧 D

Maybe ask one of the WSO if he was not trained as a pilot?

 


Edited by Nahen
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Some confusion in this thread (at least on my end), perhaps due to translations, but now I too wonder if the WSO and pilot share the same qualification/education.

If both stations indeed have basically the same functionality, it would surprise me if there's a difference in crew member qualifications and I'd expect more of a Apache PLT/CPG kind of crew role selection. (would also make sense as they would be a lot more flexible in employability)

 

Anyone care to chime in?

 

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HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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This isn't a direct response to the original question, people already answered the "how much can I control" part, but something related: I once asked on the Razbam discord F-15E channel how common it was to fly the bird alone (only one crew) in real life. There are a few real strike eagle pilots there, and their answer was something like: never in combat, sometimes to travel.

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20 minutes ago, Krez said:

WSO jest Oficerem Systemów Bojowych. Nie są pilotami. Mają inną odznakę. Chodzą do różnych szkół.

 

A simple question and a simple answer please.
Who is the pilot?

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Here is a fragment of the discussion, and more precisely the statement of a man who rather knows what he is saying. What is the result of it? Well, WSO undergoes basic pilot training - that is, he are pilots:

 

Can't speak for the navy and NFO's specifically nowadays but the broad strokes are similar from talking to NFO's.

Air force wise you go thru back in the day Undergraduate Navigator Training (UNT) or as its called today Undergraduate Combat Systems Officer Training (UCT). All happens today at NAS Pensacola in T-6's, T-1's and a terrible simulator in a closet called the T-25 where you learn to do panel nav stuff. Its been this way since 2011 ish or so. Prior to that it was more complicated with different tracks and places you would go.

You do get flight training, as in you fly, you will go through most if not all the academics the pilots will regarding how the plane works, rules/regs, flight techniques etc. You also go through Initial Flight Screening (IFS) prior to UCT which will involve 20 or so hours in DA-20's out at Pueblo Colorado. Again, you are learning to fly, there is a requirement for stick time and landing/taking the plane off at IFS. You don't do those things at UCT, but you are familiar.

At UCT you go thru a course of basic airmanship and navigation in the T-6, entirely in the backseat. Again, its recommended as long as it doesnt detract from the training that you fly as much as you desire/the pilot will let you. I personally got quite a bit of stick time in the T-6. After that you go to academics relating to radar navigation, Electronic warfare, and bombardier type stuff. Which you then do in the closet trainer the T-25. Once you finish that you then go back to the flightline and do about another 20 flights in the T-1, they have a backseat "virtual training station" setup, so that they can simulate a bomber or radar nav scope in the back, and you'll do various low level flights with one student in the front seat as copilot doing visual nav, and the other in the back doing "radar nav/bombing." You usually do not get any stick time in the T-1 but I have flown it around with the autopilot knobs plenty on our air nav routes.

Towards the end of the T-1 phase your class will have its drop. In this everybody is racked and stacked for performance throughout all of UCT, you put in a dreamsheet of the available platforms, and then you have your drop night just like in pilot training. Generally 2-3 students every class drop F-15E WSO, and they are usually in the top 3rd of the class. IE if you are number 1 in the class and you for whatever reason don't wanna go to fighters, they arent gonna force it on you, they are gonna try and hook you up with your first choice if its available.

Once you finish UCT if you dropped fighters you then go to Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals (IFF) at either Randolph AFB or Columbus AFB. There you fly the T-38 in the backseat through BFM, Surface attack, CAS, etc... paired with a class of pilots who are going through at the same time. I was lucky and had a class almost entirely of pilots going to the F-15E so we got along pretty well. Similar rules apply here as to the T-6, you fly as much as you can not to detract from the mission or be unsafe. No you are not going to be landing the T-38, its a rather dangerous aircraft, but you do get stick time out in the MOA. This is also your intro to fast jets and fighters and formation flying, so trust me you are so overwhelmed when you get there that you do not have the brain bites if they let you fly BFM to be able to do anything remotely competent. You are held to the same academic standards as the pilots, and will brief/debrief the flights the same as they will. This will take roughly 2-3 months and you get 20-30 flights in the T-38 by the time its over.

After this you go to Seymour-Johnson AFB in North Carolina and are in either the 333rd Lancers or the 334th Eagles for the Strike Eagle B-course. This will take 8-9 months to complete and you are learning to be a professional WSO. Again as far as flying goes, no you are not trained to land it from the backseat, there arent many instructor pilots who get trained to land from the backseat. But it is highly recommended and desirable for WSO's to get as much stick time as they can, again without detracting from the mission. So you arent going to be flying it in BFM, or probly while flying with a student pilot, thats valuable stick time that they need cause they are learning too. But with an instructor pilot to and from the airfield, or if you have time and gas in the airspace, and are on top of your other duties as a WSO, sure.

After this you go to one of the Operational squadrons.

From my own personal experience and the stick time I had, I was confident I could safely get the plane down on the ground, if the pilot was incapacitated, most WSO's were probly confident of this as well. It all depends very much on the emergency procedure occuring tho that would lead to that. IE there arent many things that might happen that leads to aircrew being incapacitated that doesnt require ejection rather quickly afterwards. The only real thing that you can concievably think through on this is like illness in the cockpit, or severe Spatial Disorientation that becomes incapacitating. The response to that would be the WSO takes control, flies the plane straight and level until the pilot recovers/gets his gyros straight again, and then he will land the plane. Not the kinda thing that happens often. WSO's have to be confident in their ability and right to fly the plane if needed, cause if you arent and just trust the pilot that leads to WSO's not recovering the jet from dangerous situations. Pilots likewise generally trust their WSO's to not be idiots and grab the jet unnecessarily, but are there to watch their back.

Try not to think of it like a typical multiplayer server where you dont want some asshole hopping in your backseat and fucking with you. We are trained from the start to be a cooperative team and we build trust and have standard ways of operating. Its not a "Goddamn idiot pilots", and "stupid baggage in the backseat" relationship at all (altho jokingly it might be). Everybody is there doing their job to help each other out and participating in whats going on because you have all trained together and know exactly what is going on at any particular moment. Also remember you have your job and duties to do the entire time, RIO's/WSO's are not just sitting back there riding along until its time to work the radar or drop a bomb, they are actively involved with everything from navigation to radios and comms, to just generally flying around. Even if they are not the ones talking or hands on the stick. Something as simple as telling the pilot "1,000 feet to go" for the altitude ATC cleared you to, or as soon as we get a new navigation fix, rolling the heading bug over, or punching the radio freq in, eyeballs out looking for traffic etc.

Everybody in the jet is 100% involved (or should be) in whats going on the entire time

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@Nahen There is a difference between talking about somebody’s skill set (can they pilot an aircraft) and their official aircrew title. In the F-15E there is Pilot and WSO, the WSO may well be able to pilot the aircraft but when on duty in the back of an F-15E he is the WSO and not the Pilot.

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7 hours ago, Nahen said:

Here is a fragment of the discussion, and more precisely the statement of a man who rather knows what he is saying. What is the result of it? Well, WSO undergoes basic pilot training - that is, he are pilots:

He may know how to pilot an aircraft, but he's not doing it for the Air Force. He is not a winged pilot.

120px-US_Air_Force_Pilot_Badge.png

120px-United_States_Air_Force_Navigator_Observer_Badge.svg.png

Pilot badge on top.
Combat Systems Officer (WSO) on the bottom.

 


Edited by Krez
clarification
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I know that today people have a problem with understanding the written word ...
I will try again easier
- who is the driver? someone who can drive a car has a driving license and takes his children to school every day and commutes to work himself? Anyone who drives a truck and earns money this way?
- who is a doctor? someone who treats colds, flu, joint pain? Anyone who performs complex organ transplants?

and finally - who is the pilot? someone who has undergone theoretical and practical training in the field of flying an airplane and has obtained a pilot's license and can fly with certain types of aircraft in accordance with the regulations? Anyone who has such an emblem on their uniform ??

If you think that WSO is someone who does not have RIGHTS / PAPERS of the pilot, congratulations on your creativity.

WSO is a PILOT trained to fly specific types of machines. Whether he further specialized in the pilot training of a particular type of aircraft is irrelevant in this discussion. Nobody in their right mind will not allow, in a cabin with a set that allows you to pilot an airplane worth 130 million dollars, a man who does not have at least basic aviation training in the field of PILOTING an airplane - a PILOT.

Is it so hard? The F-14 RIO is not a pilot. It doesn't even have to fly a kite - why? Because there is nothing. He is only a navigator-operator of systems and radar. To bring the plane to the airport (I will not even mention the aircraft carrier), he would have to throw the pilot out of the front cockpit and change train there. So he doesn't need ANY PILOT training.

Is that clear enough now?

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Any actual fighter pilot will tell you that knowing how to fly doesn't make a WSO a pilot. In the USAF, a pilot is someone whose primary job is to fly the airplane. WSO may know how, he may even know how to land the ship if he needs to, but flying is not his job, operating the weapons is. The USAF already tried putting two pilots on one airplane in early days of the Phantom, and that did not go over too well with the pilots, since they didn't like it that the other guy was flying and they were sitting in the back flipping switches. So, they introduced a dedicated WSO, who, while being able to work the controls if needed, was trained specifically for the backseat role (and, just as importantly, didn't have a stick up his ass about sitting back there and fiddling with the radar).

He may be a pilot in a sense that he's got a pilot's license and can, say, jump into a Cessna or a DA20 and fly it around for fun. However, this isn't what this thread is about. English words sometimes have multiple meanings, and here we are talking about being a pilot in a sense of having the skills, training and a job of the USAF pilot. In that sense, WSOs are not pilots.

3 hours ago, Nahen said:

I know that today people have a problem with understanding the written word ...

They're having trouble understanding your written word, because you use a dumb autotranslator instead of learning English. You don't seem to fully understand the responses, either, and likely for the same reason. Google Translate can help you ask the way to the nearest bus stop, not engage in serious discussion on technical matters.

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23 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Any actual fighter pilot will tell you that knowing how to fly doesn't make a WSO a pilot. In the USAF, a pilot is someone whose primary job is to fly the airplane. WSO may know how, he may even know how to land the ship if he needs to, but flying is not his job, operating the weapons is. The USAF already tried putting two pilots on one airplane in early days of the Phantom, and that did not go over too well with the pilots, since they didn't like it that the other guy was flying and they were sitting in the back flipping switches. So, they introduced a dedicated WSO, who, while being able to work the controls if needed, was trained specifically for the backseat role (and, just as importantly, didn't have a stick up his ass about sitting back there and fiddling with the radar).

He may be a pilot in a sense that he's got a pilot's license and can, say, jump into a Cessna or a DA20 and fly it around for fun. However, this isn't what this thread is about. English words sometimes have multiple meanings, and here we are talking about being a pilot in a sense of having the skills, training and a job of the USAF pilot. In that sense, WSOs are not pilots.

They're having trouble understanding your written word, because you use a dumb autotranslator instead of learning English. You don't seem to fully understand the responses, either, and likely for the same reason. Google Translate can help you ask the way to the nearest bus stop, not engage in serious discussion on technical matters.

Translator + my knowledge of the language is more than enough to say that some people do not understand that the pilot is not someone who flies the F-15E, but everyone who flies planes - Boeing 737, Pilatus, Cessna, replica P-51D... you may not know but these are also planes ... to fly, you need to have documents confirming that you have acquired this skill - I do not know about you, but with us it is called a pilot's license. And it doesn't matter whether you graduate from an elite air force aviation school or do a pilot course with your own money. Each of these routes ends with obtaining a pilot's license. And WSO must have such a license - it must have a document confirming that it can fly an airplane - that it is a pilot.
I know that in the USA, in order to dig in the ground for a water pipe to a depth of 1 meter, a team will come and be dig, but deeper than 1.5 meters, you need to have another level of "professional promotion" - qualifications, and another team that can dig must come up from 1,5 to 3 meters ...

But in most normal countries, a guy who has building qualifications and digger qualifications will do the right thing as far as the excavator can reach.

I am not interested in officer ranks, markings etc. used in USAF aviation. WSO is a man with documents confirming the completion of aviation training as a result of which he can fly / drive the planes for which he has been trained. For normal people, this means nothing less than a PILOT.

I would like to see RIO with the F-14 who ends his military career and stays as a pilot in Lufthansa or SwissAir without a license ... And it just so happens that the WSO with the F-15E can do it as he wants. He it only needs practical training in the fields that is specific to civil aviation, training for another type of aircraft, but does not have to make a pilot license from scratch.

So yes you are right I don't know, I don't understand who a pilot is and what it means to be a pilot ... I guess only in Antarctica you can fly with penguins by plane without a license ... although I'm not sure what the penguins themselves say ...

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Nahen,

18 hours ago, Nahen said:

Here is a fragment of the discussion, and more precisely the statement of a man who rather knows what he is saying. What is the result of it? Well, WSO undergoes basic pilot training - that is, he are pilots:

 

Can't speak for the navy and NFO's specifically nowadays but the broad strokes are similar from talking to NFO's.

Air force wise you go thru back in the day Undergraduate Navigator Training (UNT) or as its called today Undergraduate Combat Systems Officer Training (UCT). All happens today at NAS Pensacola in T-6's, T-1's and a terrible simulator in a closet called the T-25 where you learn to do panel nav stuff. Its been this way since 2011 ish or so. Prior to that it was more complicated with different tracks and places you would go.

You do get flight training, as in you fly, you will go through most if not all the academics the pilots will regarding how the plane works, rules/regs, flight techniques etc. You also go through Initial Flight Screening (IFS) prior to UCT which will involve 20 or so hours in DA-20's out at Pueblo Colorado. Again, you are learning to fly, there is a requirement for stick time and landing/taking the plane off at IFS. You don't do those things at UCT, but you are familiar.

At UCT you go thru a course of basic airmanship and navigation in the T-6, entirely in the backseat. Again, its recommended as long as it doesnt detract from the training that you fly as much as you desire/the pilot will let you. I personally got quite a bit of stick time in the T-6. After that you go to academics relating to radar navigation, Electronic warfare, and bombardier type stuff. Which you then do in the closet trainer the T-25. Once you finish that you then go back to the flightline and do about another 20 flights in the T-1, they have a backseat "virtual training station" setup, so that they can simulate a bomber or radar nav scope in the back, and you'll do various low level flights with one student in the front seat as copilot doing visual nav, and the other in the back doing "radar nav/bombing." You usually do not get any stick time in the T-1 but I have flown it around with the autopilot knobs plenty on our air nav routes.

Towards the end of the T-1 phase your class will have its drop. In this everybody is racked and stacked for performance throughout all of UCT, you put in a dreamsheet of the available platforms, and then you have your drop night just like in pilot training. Generally 2-3 students every class drop F-15E WSO, and they are usually in the top 3rd of the class. IE if you are number 1 in the class and you for whatever reason don't wanna go to fighters, they arent gonna force it on you, they are gonna try and hook you up with your first choice if its available.

Once you finish UCT if you dropped fighters you then go to Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals (IFF) at either Randolph AFB or Columbus AFB. There you fly the T-38 in the backseat through BFM, Surface attack, CAS, etc... paired with a class of pilots who are going through at the same time. I was lucky and had a class almost entirely of pilots going to the F-15E so we got along pretty well. Similar rules apply here as to the T-6, you fly as much as you can not to detract from the mission or be unsafe. No you are not going to be landing the T-38, its a rather dangerous aircraft, but you do get stick time out in the MOA. This is also your intro to fast jets and fighters and formation flying, so trust me you are so overwhelmed when you get there that you do not have the brain bites if they let you fly BFM to be able to do anything remotely competent. You are held to the same academic standards as the pilots, and will brief/debrief the flights the same as they will. This will take roughly 2-3 months and you get 20-30 flights in the T-38 by the time its over.

After this you go to Seymour-Johnson AFB in North Carolina and are in either the 333rd Lancers or the 334th Eagles for the Strike Eagle B-course. This will take 8-9 months to complete and you are learning to be a professional WSO. Again as far as flying goes, no you are not trained to land it from the backseat, there arent many instructor pilots who get trained to land from the backseat. But it is highly recommended and desirable for WSO's to get as much stick time as they can, again without detracting from the mission. So you arent going to be flying it in BFM, or probly while flying with a student pilot, thats valuable stick time that they need cause they are learning too. But with an instructor pilot to and from the airfield, or if you have time and gas in the airspace, and are on top of your other duties as a WSO, sure.

After this you go to one of the Operational squadrons.

From my own personal experience and the stick time I had, I was confident I could safely get the plane down on the ground, if the pilot was incapacitated, most WSO's were probly confident of this as well. It all depends very much on the emergency procedure occuring tho that would lead to that. IE there arent many things that might happen that leads to aircrew being incapacitated that doesnt require ejection rather quickly afterwards. The only real thing that you can concievably think through on this is like illness in the cockpit, or severe Spatial Disorientation that becomes incapacitating. The response to that would be the WSO takes control, flies the plane straight and level until the pilot recovers/gets his gyros straight again, and then he will land the plane. Not the kinda thing that happens often. WSO's have to be confident in their ability and right to fly the plane if needed, cause if you arent and just trust the pilot that leads to WSO's not recovering the jet from dangerous situations. Pilots likewise generally trust their WSO's to not be idiots and grab the jet unnecessarily, but are there to watch their back.

Try not to think of it like a typical multiplayer server where you dont want some asshole hopping in your backseat and fucking with you. We are trained from the start to be a cooperative team and we build trust and have standard ways of operating. Its not a "Goddamn idiot pilots", and "stupid baggage in the backseat" relationship at all (altho jokingly it might be). Everybody is there doing their job to help each other out and participating in whats going on because you have all trained together and know exactly what is going on at any particular moment. Also remember you have your job and duties to do the entire time, RIO's/WSO's are not just sitting back there riding along until its time to work the radar or drop a bomb, they are actively involved with everything from navigation to radios and comms, to just generally flying around. Even if they are not the ones talking or hands on the stick. Something as simple as telling the pilot "1,000 feet to go" for the altitude ATC cleared you to, or as soon as we get a new navigation fix, rolling the heading bug over, or punching the radio freq in, eyeballs out looking for traffic etc.

Everybody in the jet is 100% involved (or should be) in whats going on the entire time

Nahen,

I`ll give you the benefit of doubt, because there are some language issue here, but you assert that WSO are pilots, and then post a very long quote which is actually telling you the training they receive is not Pilot training at all!  Going through IFS does not qualify you as a pilot, it’s a screening process that filters out people not suited to further pilot training, and at UCT they are doing basic Airmanship and Navigation, this is not the same as Pilot training.  Stick time is not the same as pilot training, and they are not getting the same check rides that a pilot HAS to pass to go through to the next level of training.  All this quote from a WSO is telling you is that they could probably fly an Eagle in an emergency, NOT that they are qualified pilots.

 

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I can assure you that in the USAF, even back in the F-4 days, a WSO was indeed a pilot.  Not in the trained and titled sense nor in the crew duty sense, but there are redundant flight controls in the back for a reason and backseaters did practice landings just in case.

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2 hours ago, whiteladder said:

Nahen,

Nahen,

Dam ci wątpliwości, ponieważ jest tu pewien problem językowy, ale twierdzisz, że WSO to piloci, a następnie zamieszczasz bardzo długi cytat, który w rzeczywistości mówi ci, że szkolenie, które otrzymują, wcale nie jest szkoleniem pilotów! Przejście przez IFS nie kwalifikuje cię jako pilota, jest to proces przesiewowy, który odfiltrowuje osoby nienadające się do dalszego szkolenia pilotów, a na UCT zajmują się podstawowymi umiejętnościami lotniczymi i nawigacyjnymi, to nie to samo, co szkolenie pilotów. Czas na drążku to nie to samo co szkolenie pilota i nie otrzymują oni tych samych jazd kontrolnych, które pilot MUSI przejść, aby przejść do następnego poziomu szkolenia. Cały ten cytat z WSO mówi ci, że prawdopodobnie mogliby latać na orle w sytuacji awaryjnej, a NIE, że są wykwalifikowanymi pilotami.

 

Are you going to argue with that too?

https://www.aetc.af.mil/Flying-Training/


What is the T-6A? In my opinion, the training plane on which the USAF pilots learn what ?? FLY? As I wrote, those who pass the selection become "real" pilots of combat machines. WSO simply can fly - he learned it at UCT. I suggest you report that they lie on the official sites ...

 

Still no difference between RIO and WSO?


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44 minutes ago, Spurts said:

Not in the trained and titled sense nor in the crew duty sense

When it comes to discussing USAF pilots, then there's no other sense. Someone who can fly an aircraft from the back seat in an emergency is not a fighter pilot. It's not even that hard, passengers landed a few Cessnas after the actual pilot got incapacitated. Does that make them pilots? No, it means that they are passengers who know just enough to avert disaster. A WSO can fly the Mudhen, but a pilot flies it, and will be far better at it than someone who just got some stick time in training.

Calling the WSO a pilot implies that one could, if the squadron CO approved it, switch seats and fly in front. This is not the case in the modern USAF, and hasn't been for a long time. A WSO is a different skill set and different training. Yes, they know what to do with that stick in front of them if they have to, but they also know to keep their hands off it until they have to. They don't even fly the boring parts of the route, since the Mudhen has an autopilot that's worth a damn.

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And who said / wrote that WSO is a fighter pilot ?? He is a PILOT - he is a person trained in the ability to drive an airplane. He has documents for this that he obtains during UCT training. It can take off, fly from A to B and land basically any plane like most trained pilots. Just in case, I will add that, of course, he must know the details of the cockpit and the parameters of the plane he is to fly. RIO training with the F-14 does not provide for this. Is it so hard to understand?

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10 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Are you going to argue with that too?

https://www.aetc.af.mil/Flying-Training/


What is the T-6A? In my opinion, the training plane on which the USAF pilots learn what ?? FLY? As I wrote, those who pass the selection become "real" pilots of combat machines. WSO simply can fly - he learned it at UCT. I suggest you report that they lie on the official sites ...

 

Still no difference between RIO and WSO?

 

Ok this is going around in circles, I`m more than happy to admit I`m wrong, its just you are doing my work for me and keep posting stuff that proves I`m not, if you could comprehend what the page is telling you, literally in the 11th paragraph down  I have put in bold the bits that show you that UCT is not PILOT training its AVIATOR training conducted in the T-6a training Aircraft.

If you read Dan Hamptons book Viper Pilot it goes into great detail about Pilot training, the selection process and how Pilot and WSO streams diverge. But I suspect you have dug your heels in at this point, so I`m out.

 

In addition to pilot and RPA pilot training, AETC provides Undergraduate Combat Systems Officer Training; this training takes place at NAS Pensacola, Florida. UCT combines skill sets of the legacy Navigator, Electronic Warfare Officer, and Weapon Systems Officer pipelines to produce an aviator skilled in advanced navigation systems, electronic warfare and weapons employment.

The Primary phase of UCT utilizes the T-6A and focuses on teaching students the fundamentals of instrument and visual navigation, while developing airmanship, and building a foundation of mission management skills.

 

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40 minutes ago, whiteladder said:

Ok this is going around in circles, I`m more than happy to admit I`m wrong, its just you are doing my work for me and keep posting stuff that proves I`m not, if you could comprehend what the page is telling you, literally in the 11th paragraph down  I have put in bold the bits that show you that UCT is not PILOT training its AVIATOR training conducted in the T-6a training Aircraft.

If you read Dan Hamptons book Viper Pilot it goes into great detail about Pilot training, the selection process and how Pilot and WSO streams diverge. But I suspect you have dug your heels in at this point, so I`m out.

 

In addition to pilot and RPA pilot training, AETC provides Undergraduate Combat Systems Officer Training; this training takes place at NAS Pensacola, Florida. UCT combines skill sets of the legacy Navigator, Electronic Warfare Officer, and Weapon Systems Officer pipelines to produce an aviator skilled in advanced navigation systems, electronic warfare and weapons employment.

The Primary phase of UCT utilizes the T-6A and focuses on teaching students the fundamentals of instrument and visual navigation, while developing airmanship, and building a foundation of mission management skills.

 

In addition to pilot and RPA pilot training, AETC provides Undergraduate Combat Systems Officer Training; this training takes place at NAS Pensacola, Florida. UCT combines skill sets of the legacy Navigator, Electronic Warfare Officer, and Weapon Systems Officer pipelines to produce an aviator skilled in advanced navigation systems, electronic warfare and weapons employment.

The Primary phase of UCT utilizes the T-6A and focuses on teaching students the fundamentals of instrument and visual navigation, while developing airmanship, and building a foundation of mission management skills.

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If the WSO was a pilot, he would wear a Pilot's badge, not a Combat Systems Officer's badge.

The WSO may even have a civilian or commercial pilot's license, but he's not a pilot in the Air Force.

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