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SpitfireMKIXe


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At risk of responding to the original point, I'd like a LF.IXe. A handful of 2TAF squadrons had them and it would be nice to mix it up a bit in the 4YA WW2 server.

That said, our aircraft is clearly modelling a 1942 IXb.

I imagine a late Mk.XVI would be minimal dev effort over the existing IXb. Basically the same aeroplane plus the teardrop canopy and rear fuselage fuel tank.

DCS WWII player. I run the mission design team behind 4YA WWII, the most popular DCS World War 2 server.

https://www.ProjectOverlord.co.uk - for 4YA WW2 mission stats, mission information, historical research blogs and more.

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7 hours ago, Skewgear said:

At risk of responding to the original point, I'd like a LF.IXe. A handful of 2TAF squadrons had them...

Agreed. 

 

7 hours ago, Skewgear said:

That said, our aircraft is clearly modelling a 1942 IXb.

 

No, It isn't. It is modelling an LF.IXc that first entered service in late spring of 1943, and aside from some minor modifications (a gyro gunsight was becoming far more ubiquitous by mid-1944) is practically identical to the LF.IXc - including operating at +18lb boost - that were still in service in large numbers with 2nd TAF for the invasion.

This "we have a Spitfire from 1942!" crap has really got to stop.

 

7 hours ago, Skewgear said:

I imagine a late Mk.XVI would be minimal dev effort over the existing IXb. Basically the same aeroplane plus the teardrop canopy and rear fuselage fuel tank.

You assume a lot.

Firstly Mk XVIs came in both high back and teardrop canopy versions, and in fact, the high back variants were far more numerous.

Secondly the teardrop canopy versions were reaching the frontlines in April 1944 and saw service for only a few weeks before WW2 ended. Including this variant would be as egregious as being obliged to use a B 109K-4 on the Normandy map, as I guarantee there were even fewer low-back XVIs in service than K-4s during WW2. 

Plus you'd have to remodel the 3D model Spitfire completely - the differences are greater than you think, trust me - and then develop a new FM. 

It'd be a waste of development team effort; time and money would be better spent doing a MkXIV or a Typhoon or a Bf 109G-6/14 or a B-25; these at least would be useful for the maps we have.

 

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5 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

No, It isn't. It is modelling an LF.IXc that first entered service in late spring of 1943, and aside from some minor modifications (a gyro gunsight was becoming far more ubiquitous by mid-1944) is practically identical to the LF.IXc - including operating at +18lb boost - that were still in service in large numbers with 2nd TAF for the invasion.

This "we have a Spitfire from 1942!" crap has really got to stop.

OK, so it's a Q1/2 1943 airframe judging by the production date graphs here, which I think are reliable enough for a casual discussion. spitfire-l-f-mk-ix-production-1943-1944.

It doesn't make much practical difference: we're still flying a mid-war machine against late war aircraft. Not ahistorical, judging by some of 2TAF flying Mk.IXs until the end of WW2, unless you're specifically trying to model Normandy in June and July 1944 in which case the problem lies with the German airframes.

Whether it's a B or C wing is irrelevant, really: both could carry 303s as are modelled in the game. Point of this thread is it would be truly minimal dev work to make the C/E wing option available in game by swapping the guns for 50s and calling it a different version. (In fact that's 2 different versions if you count the CWs, at which point you've got a very close approximation of the late XVIe circa 1945)

Possibly the IXE was slightly heavier all-up thanks to the extra weight of 50 cal ammo? Or perhaps it carried less in the same space and therefore kept the same MAUM, I don't know.

DCS WWII player. I run the mission design team behind 4YA WWII, the most popular DCS World War 2 server.

https://www.ProjectOverlord.co.uk - for 4YA WW2 mission stats, mission information, historical research blogs and more.

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10 minutes ago, Skewgear said:

OK, so it's a Q1/2 1943 airframe judging by the production date graphs here, which I think are reliable enough for a casual discussion. spitfire-l-f-mk-ix-production-1943-1944.

It doesn't make much practical difference: we're still flying a mid-war machine against late war aircraft. Not ahistorical, judging by some of 2TAF flying Mk.IXs until the end of WW2, unless you're specifically trying to model Normandy in June and July 1944 in which case the problem lies with the German airframes.

Whether it's a B or C wing is irrelevant, really: both could carry 303s as are modelled in the game. Point of this thread is it would be truly minimal dev work to make the C/E wing option available in game by swapping the guns for 50s and calling it a different version. (In fact that's 2 different versions if you count the CWs, at which point you've got a very close approximation of the late XVIe circa 1945)

Possibly the IXE was slightly heavier all-up thanks to the extra weight of 50 cal ammo? Or perhaps it carried less in the same space and therefore kept the same MAUM, I don't know.

Swapping guns only would be more inaccurate then do nothing, later spits had different tail, and wings are quite different too. So it would require to remodel FM quite deep, so not so easy mod as you think. Our spitfire probably started as MK V and in mid production they reequip it to mk IX 🙂


Edited by grafspee
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Given the fact that devs haven't found time in recent years for updating just cockpit textures and materials to be fully compatible with post 2.5 versions of DCS, I'd say it's quite an optimistic stretch to expect that any work requiring 3D model change (even if it's small and on the wings only) plus FM adjustment would be "truly minimal dev work".

Spit, in practical terms, is semi-abandonware at this point and only gets touched by devs when some global feature affecting all warbirds is introduced (damage modelling, canopy reflections, props animation, engine cooling etc.).

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On 5/26/2022 at 2:06 PM, grafspee said:

Swapping guns only would be more inaccurate then do nothing, later spits had different tail, and wings are quite different too. So it would require to remodel FM quite deep, so not so easy mod as you think. Our spitfire probably started as MK V and in mid production they reequip it to mk IX 🙂

 

You're aware the early production IXEs (Mark 9 with 50 cal) didn't have the enlarged rudder and were identical in all respects (but the guns) to the IXB and IXC, arent you. A few squadrons flew these over Normandy during the 1944 invasion.

You might be thinking of the XIV (Mark 14) which had a different engine, guns, canopy, tail and wings to the IX. (Edit to add - or the XVIe (Mark 16) which had the bubble canopy, lower fuselage, larger tail, clipped wings etc)


Edited by Skewgear

DCS WWII player. I run the mission design team behind 4YA WWII, the most popular DCS World War 2 server.

https://www.ProjectOverlord.co.uk - for 4YA WW2 mission stats, mission information, historical research blogs and more.

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On 5/25/2022 at 1:10 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

yes our WWII team is a smaller so things do take longer but we have big plans, and the passion is there from us and our community, even if it is smaller than the modern aircraft. 

Our terrain team are currently working on a WWII version of our free Marianas terrain and it is going to be an incredible place for WWII lovers to fly. 

Best regards

Bignewy

Just out of interest what do you think will make a WW2 pacific island map "incredible for WWII lovers to fly"? Incredible in the sense that it stretches credulity?

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  • ED Team
55 minutes ago, SoW Reddog said:

Just out of interest what do you think will make a WW2 pacific island map "incredible for WWII lovers to fly"? Incredible in the sense that it stretches credulity?

People who are looking for great terrains to fly in with a WWII setting will love it, if you are not one of them it is not a problem. Why not wait and see and make your own mind up, it is a free terrain after all. 

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WW2 version of Marianas will be nice for sure, and it's free, what not to like, but what we currently have and what will we get in near future that is appropriate for the Pacific theatre this map represents? Japanese liveries for existing aircraft aside, we have no one for allies to fight, no Japanese ground vehicles, boats, AAA, infantry and such. F4U is coming, along with some ships, and that's pretty much it for allies too as far as we know currently (at least that can be helped by re-painting P-51 and P-47). And, for me personally, work on Pacific theatre means less attention to war in Europe and no hope for Eastern front (or at least lend-leased western planes widely used by USSR like P-39 and Hurricane) for a looong time. I will probably fly over new Marianas version for "recreational purposes", but I would prefer more fleshed out European theatre (ground vehicles/ships/artillery/fortifications and static clutter/infantry uniform and armament variants and aircraft, Italy, Germany, maybe North Africa. Not to mention Eastern front/Great Patriotic war assets).

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Why "pacific map" landed in spitfire topic ?, maybe some comment on spitfire status, things are not quite complete.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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  • 1 year later...

Its a new year and we are still flying the same airframe against the same aircraft.  Us in the WWII community in the skies over Normandy these changes could have been made giving more options for mission builders.  Again most of us are not getting any younger LOL!

Also can you unlock the .LUA so we can enjoy adjustments OFLLINE!


Edited by king1hw
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