Spot the Abrams Challenge

[NineLine]

Wanna help me prove a point.

Ok, download the mission (You need CA), jump in the T-80, visibly pick up the Abrams. Do not cheat, do not spam target lock, give me a real honest opinion, even if it is that you couldn't find the Abrams. 

You can use IR, you can use bino view, zoom, etc. But give me an honest, rough idea how long it takes you to pick up and get a shot off on the Abrams.

Spoiler alert, the the AI can do it with in seconds of mission launch.

Use the Poll to to give me an idea where you ended up, there is no winner or loser here, its just a helpful survey for me.

Thanks!

Find the Abrams.miz

[aquajay]

epic gamer moment gamerzzz

[ddc196]

Took me six minutes to see something I thought was it. Moved forward to try and see if I was right. I was wrong and paid for it. Went back in to try again, knowing where I should be looking and could not see it. Used IR and zoom. This was in VR Oculus Rift S.

[NineLine]

12 minutes ago, ddc196 said:

Took me six minutes to see something I thought was it. Moved forward to try and see if I was right. I was wrong and paid for it. Went back in to try again, knowing where I should be looking and could not see it. Used IR and zoom. This was in VR Oculus Rift S.

Thanks for trying, I should have said dont move, but it doesnt matter, the point being I doubt we will see times anywhere near as fast as the AI, which I am hoping for honestly

[ddc196]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

Thanks for trying, I should have said dont move, but it doesnt matter, the point being I doubt we will see times anywhere near as fast as the AI, which I am hoping for honestly

Happy to help. I figured I wasn't supposed to move but curiosity got the best of me.

[NineLine]

No, honestly that is ok, I think it still shows the point I am trying to make  Moving might even make it worse than better if you move the wrong way.

[XCNuse]

I gave up completely.

 

Then, went into the ME, cheated, tried again knowing where it was; nope!

 

Then for the actual fun of it, went the other way, opened a blue slot, and tried finding the T80.

Still nope!

 

As an interesting side note; when controlling the T80 the second time around; I could hit lock target and it would actually show it.

But then going from the Abrams to the T80... it couldn't ever see anything to lock up.

 

Side note; I'm curious how graphics settings can affect the possibility of finding the target.

Edited May 24, 2022 by XCNuse

[NineLine]

41 minutes ago, XCNuse said:

Side note; I'm curious how graphics settings can affect the possibility of finding the target.

Good question, and whole other can of worms. 

But thanks for trying, the bottom line here is the AI has a crazy advantage right now. If you havent tried just editing the original mission so that the T-80 actually attacks on its own. 

[Hobel]

It would be helpful to note that when you run the test, set forest visibility to 100% and forest details to 1 to see it best.

I have 60% forest visibility and 0.6 forest details, so the tank was 100% hidden and therefore not possible to see

Edited May 24, 2022 by Hobel

[NineLine]

How ever it ends up on however you have your sim set up is fine. As I said, no wrong answers

Except for the 1 vote made just to be funny... 

[Biggus]

I've just spent seven minutes and fifty five seconds looking and I can't see it.

@NineLine might be worth posting a link to this on hoggit if you haven't already.  Might get more eyes on this thread.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Biggus
Corrected time elapsed.

[Crash2]

I will say that without any information on where the tank could be it was impossible. I cheated and took a look in the ME. Once I knew the general area I was able to scan it better zooming in with the sight. Even then it was difficult to spot and took over 2 minutes to see it. 

 

Its been a long time since I did some combined arms driving. But it sounds like others had the same problem.

[draconus]

Tank hidden somewhere in the forest - impossible to spot as IRL. Now for the AI, good luck simulating visibility between tree branches and trunks - raytracing?

[Livers]

I cheated, scanned the horizon and continually tried to lock. I should have scanned to the left first. Sill could not see the Abrams, or kill it. F7 view showed I was hitting it. Invulnerable?

[whiteladder]

Never Saw it

[SilentGun]

Was determined to find the tank so I spent a good 20 mins looking at every leaf on every tree. spotted something after those 20 mins spamming between IR and day sights and sure enough it was the tracks of the tank.

 

Point is, without completely abusing some kind of function its pretty much impossible to find that tank. I didn't play with the AI to see if it would engage but there should be absolutely no way that the Abrams or T80 could see each other without some kind of movement or signature (dust, engine noise noise, hot tracks etc.)

(coming from the prospective of an armored vehicle crewman).

[NineLine]

Thanks all, I appreciate everyone taking the time to try.

[Exorcet]

Finding the tank took a very thorough search, it would probably be completely undetectable without prior knowledge that it was nearby.

[Apocalypse31]

On 5/26/2022 at 4:39 PM, NineLine said:

Thanks all, I appreciate everyone taking the time to try.

What is the result of you hypothesis?

[Paladin1cd]

9 line, I was a tanker for two tours and this is one of my greater frustrations with the sim at the moment. Bear in mind once a crewman sees a target they often still have to get the TC to understand where it is, or the gunner before engaging. I’m certain situations obviously they would have to get clearance to fire. They may sneak in an ammo change even. (By the way that’s a huge issue with these missiles apparently all the AI battle carry - tube launched missiles need to be a rarity not what is being toted around at all times. They are pretty difficult to use and rarely even issued, cause bad barrel wear and bore sight issues and well you don’t want to battle carry it frequently because what if you encounter something at very short distance? Your gun tube is cluttered up with something that you gotta clear before throwing in a HEAT round or whatever. 
 

Anyway, THANK YOU.  It’s good to know this is something being discussed. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Paladin1cd

[HC_Official]

Is this a modified tank?  As in is it using the same cloaking technology as predator ?

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, HC_Official said:

Is this a modified tank?  As in is it using the same cloaking technology as predator ?

Is a cold tank, I wanted to use the same state as the AI was picking up for a fair comparison, a hot tank might have shown much easier for players, but that isnt the issue.

On 5/29/2022 at 11:11 AM, Paladin1cd said:

9 line, I was a tanker for two tours and this is one of my greater frustrations with the sim at the moment. Bear in mind once a crewman sees a target they often still have to get the TC to understand where it is, or the gunner before engaging. I’m certain situations obviously they would have to get clearance to fire. They may sneak in an ammo change even. (By the way that’s a huge issue with these missiles apparently all the AI battle carry - tube launched missiles need to be a rarity not what is being toted around at all times. They are pretty difficult to use and rarely even issued, cause bad barrel wear and bore sight issues and well you don’t want to battle carry it frequently because what if you encounter something at very short distance? Your gun tube is cluttered up with something that you gotta clear before throwing in a HEAT round or whatever. 
 

Anyway, THANK YOU.  It’s good to know this is something being discussed. 

 

Thanks for your feedback, it is helpful!

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb HC_Official:

Is this a modified tank?  As in is it using the same cloaking technology as predator ?

These settings must be set to 100% otherwise it will be impossible

 

Spoiler

 

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, Hobel said:

These settings must be set to 100% otherwise it will be impossible

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That is a good tip as well, and I will make sure it is noted with the devs, that it is even tougher to see with the different settings. AI don't care about those things sadly. 

[Paladin1cd]

Happy to help 9line, I’d be happy to share what I can anytime, I think as DCS improves it’s ground gMe it elevates the realism of the flight sim. Exciting to see things like this!