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Controlling Apache - Long Cyclic Stick


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For years, decades even, I've accepted the limitation of all joysticks pivoting from the base of the grip rather than moving in a circular plane like a real aircraft with a stick mounted to the floor or a pedestal.  It is what it is, and I figured someday if I ever pursued my home-built 'pit fantasy then I'd solve it with a floor-mounted stick at that time.  But for as long as I play at a desk I figured I'd have to continue damaging my shoulder with the Cougar and Warthog springs from hell, out of necessity.

I saw these "MEZA mounts" on Bezos, and also a kit for extending any of the Warthog, Virpl, or WW sticks.  The gears turned, the money burned...

I can't believe I never tried this before, it is amazing.  My Warthog is set on 5" extension, which makes it move like a real stick in a surprisingly huge circle. First, it solved the stiction that was starting up (again), like I can't detect it at all because the lever force to break it free is much stronger I guess.  Second, finally the spring feels like the correct tension (almost too soft)  and is perfect combined with the third improvement: the much better ergonomic placement.  Before the stick was on the desk and me reaching straight out.  On the lowest MEZA mount setting, even with 5" extension the grip is much lower -- at desk level.  You can see in the photo how much lower it is in space than on top of the desk behind it. 

The beauty of the mounts is that the quick lever clamp lets me slide the stick to a center-stick position or side-stick in 3 seconds.  The clamp exerts extreme pressure and holds solid, I am certain my crappy IKEA desk is going to break away before the clamps let go.  Given the massive combined weight of these mounts and the Warthog, I seriously worry about this table and try to keep my arm weight off the throttle.  A thick, very sturdy, square-edge table is a must.  There is not a lot of clamping surface area, at first I looked at it and said "nah".. but yes... the lever clamp is that extreme.   They are German engineered and machined, anodized aluminum, absolutely perfect workmanship and material. I've no doubt they can be used as a trailer hitch in a pinch.

Now, here's the magic when it comes to Apache.  With a traditional stick, I had to use some pretty crazy axis curves to be able to control the thing at all.  With this long stick, it's much easier to be precise around center, as the distance I physically move my hands to make the same input increased a lot. So I set the X and Y curves to 0, tried again --- OMG, yes.  Now I'm moving the stick that is physically between my legs (snicker) and it matches exactly the stick movement of my virtual pilot.   And wow does it fly nice.  Instantly I can hover better, maneuver better, it just makes sense to the brain like this.  Without any curves on the axes, I'm not continually over-controlling...it all feels linear and "like it should be".   I'm stunned at the difference.  And in VR when now it feels like I'm at the controls of Apache, it makes the dopamine flow hoo boy.  I don't miss a real feeling collective at all, but I will never want fly choppers again without a long cyclic.  🙂   The Hip, KA-50, same... they all feel correct and are vastly easier to wrestle.

These aren't cheap and my wife thinks I've really gone and lost it now.  No matter, I am 100% glad I spent the money on it and know that somebody out there will enjoy this too.  I don't work for Bezos, I'm not shilling for these products for any reason other than I love the immersion+

Mounts - $185

https://www.amazon.com/MOUNT-Desk-Mount-Compatible-Thrustmaster-Installation/dp/B08QRCW6SN/ref=sr_1_4?crid=29CPU7S4H0R1T&keywords=MEZA+mount&qid=1653849889&s=videogames&sprefix=meza+mount%2Cvideogames%2C105&sr=1-4

Extension kit:  $65    (Can set any size from 2.75" up to 7.5", I'm using 5")

https://www.amazon.com/Flight-Extension-Thrustmaster-Warthog-WinWing-Desktop/dp/B08VKXSSDN/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VE9NRSGKTJR7&keywords=flight+stick+grip+extension+kit&qid=1653849852&s=videogames&sprefix=flight+stick+grip%2Cvideogames%2C133&sr=1-1
 

 

joystick_extension_medium.jpg

meza_mounts.jpg

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System: Core i9 10980XE @ 4.00GHz -- MB: X299 UD4 Pro -- 32GB RAM -- RTX4070ti -- 1TB Intel NVMe x2 -- Win10 pro

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Welcome to the wonderful world of center mounted sticks with extension.

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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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When centre mounted do you have the stick turned on an angle (15 degrees) or do you have to bend your wrist to hold it?

If you angle it, how do you calibrate it?

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i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog

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5 hours ago, Sarge55 said:

When centre mounted do you have the stick turned on an angle (15 degrees) or do you have to bend your wrist to hold it?

If you angle it, how do you calibrate it?

Yep. Just the grip itself is angled. No worries calibrating.

 

jHkCH5r.jpg


Edited by dburne
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Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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Thanks dburne.  So the extension allows you to angle the stick while the base stays straight.  Nice.

I have the same pedals, they are great.

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog

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17 hours ago, Sarge55 said:

When centre mounted do you have the stick turned on an angle (15 degrees) or do you have to bend your wrist to hold it?

If you angle it, how do you calibrate it?

I do have it angled a bit inward, because I really like center stick.  Meaning, the grip is simply turned a bit, not the gimbals or anything.  Calibration is unaffected. 

22 hours ago, spikenet said:

Nice one.. I love my ghetto centre mount, works great and easy to remove as needed 🙂

 

 

Dude you are my spirit animal.  I have spare plywood around, I thought 15 times before I bought MEZAs about making a real floor mount.  Maybe I should've, but now it can be a slow project.   Any build wisdom you gained from that?   I don't think it's ghetto at all...

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System: Core i9 10980XE @ 4.00GHz -- MB: X299 UD4 Pro -- 32GB RAM -- RTX4070ti -- 1TB Intel NVMe x2 -- Win10 pro

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7 hours ago, Sarge55 said:

Thanks dburne.  So the extension allows you to angle the stick while the base stays straight.  Nice.

I have the same pedals, they are great.

Yup the extension is 3 pieces, different sizes, of nice aluminum tubing threaded on each end,  and 2 collars with set-screws so you can adjust the length a bit on the tube of your choice.  Positioning the grip is actually easy to change on the fly on the Warthog, I just unscrew the big metal thingy a bit, turn it, tighten.   So when I do move to sidestick, I actually angle it the same amount the opposite direction.   This is the first time in 2 decades of flight simming that I've been able to get the freakin grip where I want it, and the perfect angle.

So... say I want to fly Viper and go sidestick, let's time me:

  • Quick-lever unclamp the stick mount, slide it over, clamp the lever back.  5 seconds if I'm being attentive.
  • Unscrew Warthog stick hand-collar, turn stick, tighten.  3.142 seconds.

8.142 seconds total to reconfigure my cockpit.

System: Core i9 10980XE @ 4.00GHz -- MB: X299 UD4 Pro -- 32GB RAM -- RTX4070ti -- 1TB Intel NVMe x2 -- Win10 pro

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47 minutes ago, Fuggzy said:

Any build wisdom you gained from that?

Pretty simple, measure twice cut once? 🙂 Getting the height in relation to the chair is important and how it interacts with the surrounding. I have a motor for my steering wheel so I cant have the stick to far forwards or it hits it. The small mounting plate for the stick makes it super easy to construct (1 piece of ply and 2 offcut hardwood handrail. 6 screws hold it together) and with your feet resting on the floor its not going to move anywhere!

 

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27 minutes ago, spikenet said:

Pretty simple, measure twice cut once? 🙂 Getting the height in relation to the chair is important and how it interacts with the surrounding. I have a motor for my steering wheel so I cant have the stick to far forwards or it hits it. The small mounting plate for the stick makes it super easy to construct (1 piece of ply and 2 offcut hardwood handrail. 6 screws hold it together) and with your feet resting on the floor its not going to move anywhere!

 

 

It's awesome. Hit that with some black metallic Krylon!  🙂  Not kidding, I'm going to copy you someday, I want the floor mount.  Where did you get the curved extension?  I have searched all the places, literally can't find one.  That curve is a must imo.  

System: Core i9 10980XE @ 4.00GHz -- MB: X299 UD4 Pro -- 32GB RAM -- RTX4070ti -- 1TB Intel NVMe x2 -- Win10 pro

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