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Howzzat

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5 minutes ago, bandit648 said:

Agree with everything being said here. It's certainly not worth $55 in its current state. I was hoping for higher resolution terrain mesh and textures then what we got. What's up with the area around Ushuaia? You'd think that'd be a place to really focus on by the developers at release since its one of the most scenic locations but the mountain textures and mesh is very low quality. 

I hope they aren't holding back the higher res imagery due to people whining about disk space. I don't care if its 500 GB I'll find the space for it. This region is gorgeous and deserves better. Hopefully my money was well spent and Raz is hard at work making improvements. 

our focus has been brought back to the mainland after updating the Falkland Islands, these sort of issues will be addressed during EA

 

Thanks Raz_Specter

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11 minutes ago, Raz_Specter said:

our focus has been brought back to the mainland after updating the Falkland Islands, these sort of issues will be addressed during EA

 

Thanks Raz_Specter

Thanks for the response and congrats on the release. I think you guys can make this the top map in DCS with some time. It has huge potential. Can you comment on if you are considering releasing a larger size map (in terms of storage space) with higher res imagery? I noticed its almost the same size as Syria on disk. Is there some sort of hard size limit in DCS?

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I think it has a looooooong way to go.

Happy to support the devs and I'm not doubtful on the final outcome. It's just that now, this map is not for everyone, that's for sure.

I've tried to take some gorgeous screenshots as wallpapers (as I usually do) on this map and I've did not managed to get anything even changing datetimes, weather... it is not ready yet.

 

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18 hours ago, Howzzat said:

Before I get bashed let me say this, overall impression this map has huge potential. (Secondly have been working on the dev team for a leading flight sim for around 10 years)

Good points:

  1. Finally a map big enough for opposing naval forces without being too close together great map for Naval Ops.
  2. from medium to  High Altitude looks pretty good.
  3. Loads of potential for a wide spectrum of missions and campaigns due to the amount of playable area.

Not so good points and yeah I know its in Early access. (Hope these get fixed)

1. The use of satellite imagery as a texture base.Down low satellite imagery loses all fidelity it's too low res and requires massive amounts of work to get right, for example flying over the Falkland islands you see clouds on ground textures still,

shadows in valleys that are "Baked" into the scenery from the satallite imagery so give a false sense of time of day, sun direction etc clash with shadows from DCS itself. 

Valleys etc that are in the satellite imagery dont match up with the terrain in places due to the resolution of the terrain mesh so can be decieving when dropping down from a high altitude.

2. Grass an awesome  Idea but in place looks way out of scale compared to some static objects. or buries things like helipads, take a look at FOB San Carlos for example.

3. Some textures of Structures etc very low detail, kind of a pitty as this map offers a great opportunity for Combined Arms as well.

4. The waterline round lakes and the coasts (even the falkland islands) needs a lot of work at the moment there is no real transition (Example the free Mariana's Islands coast line is the best out there at this.)

5. Currently Cant get seasons to change textures snow in winter, change of colour of ground etc.

Overall impression.

Love the Potential this map has, with a "But"  Finish wise it's lower quality than some of the new free / paid Sceneries Like Syria and Marianas. Would love to see some kind of roadmap as to when realistically we can see what is being updated and when.

Bang for Buck?
For Mission and Campaign creation well worth the money. 10/10
Visually 6/10

Do I regret buying it no, but feel its a bit overpriced for the current state it's in. When compared to Syria on release.

One final question to Razbam What settings did you use for the promo video for example. time, date and weather settings?

Finally thanks Razbam for what I hope will be a kick ass playground down the road.

 

 

I was going to post with my impressions but read your post and realised that you had just written exactly what i was thinking.....!!

I was very excited by the pre launch videos and have only spent an hour so far flying round the Falkland islands at 2 - 3000 ft in the Harrier.  So perhaps not a fair test , but I came away distinctly underwhelmed.

On the other hand, I know its early access etc and I am very happy to support Razbam and other developers by buying. The water masking and satelite textures are not great though and there is a distinct lack of definition to the ground at low level. And it badly needs a higher resolution mesh and textures. I owuld be very happy if it WAS bigger ( 250GB) and looked better. Please consider a high res version as an option for those of us with better systems and lots of drive space. 

But thank you Razbam, and looking forward to the improvements! 


Edited by markturner1960
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6 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

I was going to post with my impressions but read your post and realised that you had just written exactly what i was thinking.....!!

I was very excited by the pre launch videos and have only spent an hour so far flying round the Falkland islands at 2 - 3000 ft in the Harrier.  So perhaps not a fair test , but I came away distinctly underwhelmed.

On the other hand, I know its early access etc and I am very happy to support Razbam and other developers by buying. The water masking and satelite textures are not great though and there is a distinct lack of definition to the ground at low level. And it badly needs a higher resolution mesh and textures. I owuld be very happy if it WAS bigger ( 250GB) and looked better. Please consider a high res version as an option for those of us with better systems and lots of drive space. 

But thank you Razbam, and looking forward to the improvements! 

 

This has already been discussed, my idea was to have the option once terrain was purchase to have a download of the high res textures for those that have the space.  We need to discuss this with ED to iron out if this is possible.  As of now our focus is back on the mainland and will progress through the map adding more details and correcting issues

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1 hour ago, 1987kess said:

I think it has a looooooong way to go.

Happy to support the devs and I'm not doubtful on the final outcome. It's just that now, this map is not for everyone, that's for sure.

I've tried to take some gorgeous screenshots as wallpapers (as I usually do) on this map and I've did not managed to get anything even changing datetimes, weather... it is not ready yet.

 

people have managed to take some really cool shots. but as I mention in our dev post all of your concerns will be addressed during EA.  our goal is to make this the best map for DCS
 

examples below

unknown.pngunknown1.pngunknown2.png

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10 hours ago, sirrah said:

I tend to be so exited when seeing new "bling" in DCS, that I fail to see any downsides. Same here with the new SA map. Just so thrilled to see yet another new map. Imo we can't have enough of them 😉 

That said, the OP has some very valid points that I do agree with.

I don't believe the price is too high, but it is fair to say that Ugra delivered a more complete map on release, for the same amount of money. Razbam's price for the SA map just puts a little more pressure on them to get on par with Syria's release version soonish. It's very obvious that there's still a lot of work to be done, especially in terms of ground details and missing scenery (mostly small villages and industrial sites). In general, what struck me most:

From high altitude:

  • Ground (satelliet) textures look extremely pretty and realistic
  • Cities look quite poor, in terms of too obvious repeating scenery (like looking at tiles)

 

From low altitude:

  • Ground textures look poor (as we all know is WIP), but also in many places it lacks proper terrain slopes (satellite texture showing a bank near a river, yet the terrain is flat)
  • City scenery look quite good an diverse, both in colors and shapes

 

Not at my pc now, but I'll try and post some screenshots later, to show what I mean

 

Anyways, I'm glad I purchased, having fun with the new map and until proven differently, I'm having all the confidence that Razbam will further improve this map (within a reasonable timeframe).  

 

Same amount? Syria was 34.99, this is 20$ more!

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14 minutes ago, WolfhoundCH said:

Same amount? Syria was 34.99, this is 20$ more!

Was it? Hm, I guess I forgot about that. Heck, Ugra should have charged more then! 😄

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43 minutes ago, Raz_Specter said:

This has already been discussed, my idea was to have the option once terrain was purchase to have a download of the high res textures for those that have the space.  We need to discuss this with ED to iron out if this is possible.  As of now our focus is back on the mainland and will progress through the map adding more details and correcting issues

@BIGNEWY We need the hi-res option for this map! 😀

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3 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

But even that will probably some more work.

I hope it does, because there are issues with the terrain mesh there, as well as things like roads and rivers not matching up. You can also see a few places where there are flat buildings and structures.

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50 minutes ago, Raz_Specter said:

people have managed to take some really cool shots. but as I mention in our dev post all of your concerns will be addressed during EA.  our goal is to make this the best map for DCS
 

examples below

unknown.pngunknown1.pngunknown2.png

No one is disputing it looks great from altitude, down low below 5k Alt you see a  different story, below 1k and it is pixelated like crazy, even in the falkland islands issues remain like clouds from satellite imagery are on the landscape. The Sim I work on see;s the same issues wuith scenery created by people using satellite imagery, for high altitude VFR style flying its amazing, for low level strike missions or helo ops it's a totally different story.  The other issue is if you go with a higher res Sattelite image other than the increased File Size is you end up with loads of pancake Buildings that need covering up because on the high res images buildings are much more visible. 

I am not bashing this scenery as I said for missions and campaign possibilities this Module offers endless possibilities, just offering some perspective from someone who has seen sceneries go down the same satellite image base route and had a nightmare trying to fix things, for example terrain mesh resolution not matching the textures so the textures for roads rivers etc wont match the actual terrain. 



 

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As a dedicated map slut, I am very happy to have the SA. I think it took imagination and a bit of guts to make this product and with Razbam saying it will get further love, I'm fine with the state it is in and with the price. Especially since it was clearly stated what state it would be in. I consider this map an investment. It's out of the box for DCS and I'm willing to back that kind of thinking. 

 

While there is obviously room for improvement, what we have already is a pretty good looking map with a great feel to it, and it represents a clear dose of new thinking as far as modules go, and that is great. I've seen "other sims" put out over 9 variations of the same plane. "Look! It's the -G10A model with increased tire pressure. That's be $19.99 please." Yeah, uh, no thanks. Let's see some true innovation. 

 

This map is new in so many ways and I like new flightsim toys. I'm very happy it's out and I'm looking forward to what it brings along with it.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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Personally I find this map superb.
Certainly there is still a lot of work to be done and RAZBAM is aware of it.
I thank them for having released it in early access because it allows me to fly on it and see updates that will improve this map
as for the price I find it correct because RAZBAM cannot ask a price of 30$ and ask 5$ each time they update, the price was set at 55$ now they only have the finish as quickly as they can.
Thank you RAZBAM and let's be grateful that there are people working so that we can have fun.👍

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4 hours ago, RogueRunner said:

It's not a $70 terrain for sure, it's more like $30 IMO

 

It has a 20% discount for EA, plus I used 12.7 miles, for a net cost of US$ 43 ... considering that this is a niche add-on for a niche flight sim, I find the price very fair. 

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1 hour ago, Raz_Specter said:

people have managed to take some really cool shots

 

I managed to take this one, climbing over one of the Glaciers of Southern Patagonian Ice Field:

 

Mn9S5IE.jpg

 

loving the map at the moment, I'm already planing missions for it ... my first will be for the Pucara user mod  🙂

 


Edited by Rudel_chw
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6 hours ago, ST0RM said:

Glad you folks, that are ok with the effort you paid for, are hopeful the map will get updates. 
I dont share that sentiment. Based on the multiple videos from previewers and the comments here and elsewhere, I'll hold onto my money for a long while. 
 

Same here. The moment I saw the first presentation video I knew it ain't for me until the low level detail is taken care of. 

I am also convinced it will take years to get it right. Wasn't Razbam map "team" a one person gig mostly? 

2 hours ago, Raz_Specter said:

people have managed to take some really cool shots. but as I mention in our dev post all of your concerns will be addressed during EA.  our goal is to make this the best map for DCS
 

examples below

unknown.pngunknown1.pngunknown2.png

Thanks for the info. Question please, these are the examples of current state of things to correct, right? 

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For what it is, I am pleased.  It is (obviously) in early access, and has the issues associated with that that we should expect.

Geographically, though, it is GREAT.  As others have mentioned, it has the shear size to be of great use in a lot of naval battles.  And the nooks and cranny approach to Terra del Fuego is awesome.

Great work, and a "well done" to all concerned.

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46 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

 

I am also convinced it will take years to get it right. Wasn't Razbam map "team" a one person gig mostly? 

 

 

Razbam has been active with the Harrier updates. That's a good sign. Granted there have been some decent mish-mashes with the Mavericks, including the time they wanted to kill off certain Mavericks, which caused a genuine kerfuffle. But at least they listened and kept the Maverick in question and we've even seen other toys added, like the APKWS rockets. Plus there are ongoing fixes in the updates. 

 

I think we'll see updates to the map within a decent time frame, including the addition of assets. 

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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The price is ok for me. And I totally agree with Rudel’s words.

I think this map is a very special product. It is all about experience : big area, fuel management, large war theatre, high altitude immersion because the use of satellite images.

This last point is a strong design choice because it means that it will be near impossible to provide a nice low altitude experience, at least at the level most people expect and everywhere on this huge map.

So my disappointment is more about the fact that I tend to think that Razbam don’t totally embrace their strong design choices and try to provide mid experience to everyone :

1. The first priority should be to provide high res satellite images and give amazing mid/high altitude experience, to support all the strategic ideas behind the map. 250/500GB download and the needed SSD will not be an issue for people wanting this map for all the reasons stated before
 

2. Put some efforts on some specific area. Beautiful area and/or area where it makes sense for helo and warbirds to fly 


With the Afghanistan map coming (if I understood well the spoiler), I tend to thing that some focus will be somewhere else soon and it could be the main theatre for helo

And please, add at least some « free flight » mission for each plane at the rights spot from the beginning. It would have take 1 hour of your time, to offer a first nice experience and provide knowledge about the map and the most beautiful area.

Yes it is early access and I am happy to buy all modules in early access. But don’t skip the first experience (same for ED) 🙂

I am happy to discover this map and feel worry about the fuel remaining in the tank. Good work Razbam and please continue to innovate as you always do !!


Edited by Chapa
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12 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

I managed to take this one, climbing over one of the Glaciers of Southern Patagonian Ice Field:

 

Mn9S5IE.jpg

 

loving the map at the moment, I'm already planing missions for it ... my first will be for the Pucara user mod  🙂

 

 

This picture is a perfect example of the need for higher resolution terrain mesh. The mountains look like a painted cloth draped over some cushions rather than the rocky irregular structures they actually are. I had better mountain photoscenery in FSX 10 years ago than this!!I would happily find another 250GB of disk space for mesh that does this....hell, I would even pay extra !! 

Can I also just re iterate, this is constructive feedback, not Raz bashing, I love their products, just trying to help the process to where I and obviously many other customers, feel it should be. 


Edited by markturner1960
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a7c127f24fbfe33652a3403dfb7afa60.jpg
To illustrate what I mean, here is a quick screen of FSX using photo scenery from 7 years ago

I would be keen to know what size mesh is currently being used by Razbam, as it makes all the difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Edited by markturner1960
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 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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1ee28b41b745cab160110e7a4b4f5a1e.jpg
And another one. This is 5m mesh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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Does it make a difference if the terrain has to be interactive? Is terrain you just look at, like in the civvy sim, the same thing as the terrain in DCS where you are placing objects, some of them moving, seeing them on radars and FLIRs, and blowing them up?

 

I'm way past my snack bracket on this, I know nothing about making maps, but the question came to mind.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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I have just done some flying in the Chilean mountains and Fjords and I think here, it actually feels better than the Falklands!  this for example:

Screen_220611_142112.png

But then you go closer and you get stuff like this

 

Screen_220611_141540.png

 

Which looks a bit  Minecrafty....As I say, mesh is the answer, the imagery is pretty good in these mountains, hope that helps!

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 F/A-18C: Rhino FFB base TianHang F16 grip, Winwing MP 1, F-18 throttle, TO & Combat panels, MFG crosswind & DFB Aces  seat :cool:                       

Viper: WinWing MFSSB base with F-16 grip, Winwing F-16 throttle, plus Vipergear ICP. MFG crosswind rudders. 

Helo ( Apache) set up: Virpil collective with AH64D grip, Cyclic : Virpil CM3 base & TM F18 grip, MFG crosswind rudders, Total controls AH64 MFD's,  TEDAC Unit. 

 

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I think ill wait for a sale . 

Problem with maps being high price is that people wont buy . Simple . ! 

The way i look at it is this , A pub is selling beer for £2 and the one next door is selling for £5 . Which pub  profits .  

 


Edited by KoN
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Gigabyte - X570 UD ~ Ryzen - 5600X @ 4.7 - Pulse - RX-6800 -  XPG 32:GB @ 3200 - VKB - Gunfighter 4 - STECs - Throttle - Crosswinds Rudders - Trackir 5 .

I'm a dot . Pico Nero 3 link VR . @ 4k

Win 11 Pro 64Bit .

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