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On 6/13/2022 at 10:09 PM, Beirut said:

 

At this point I think it's the banana split community. 🍌

 

It's binary - fly on the lo-res server or fly on the hi-res server. If making a choice between all of two options causes fear and loathing in the community, and risk splitting them like an aberrant atom, then the community has far deeper issues to deal with. 

 

No decision by any developer should ever, ever, ever put "will it split the MP community" ahead of "will paying customers enjoy this premium product".

"fear and loathing"?? 😛 That was not my point.
I mean it more matter-of-factly. Not any kind of emotional split.
If there's two distinct versions of a map, there will be a partitioning of players between them. Compare it with how ED managed the Super Carrier - at first you would have needed the Super Carrier module to even be allowed to join a server with it! So they adjusted that.


And yes, if it's only a texture difference, it's a bit easier to manage, as then everyone _could_ potentially still play on the same map. It's the mesh that is critical. (You don't want players with one version of the mesh be seen flying through terrain that is only present on other versions).

On 6/13/2022 at 9:22 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

🙂 I'm so glad to not be doing MP anymore, as I'm now too used to flying DCS my way, rather than the Server minimum denominator way  😇

I only do privately organized MP so it would be a bit easier to manage in a closed group - but we'd still have to decide if we'd force everyone to play on the lower definition map, or on the higher (and potentially exclude some members).

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12 minutes ago, Jarlerus said:

If there's two distinct versions of a map, there will be a partitioning of players between them.

I think the key point is that there is already way too much content to support the relatively small multiplayer base across all terrains and aircraft era without some considerable degree of community organisation that it makes any further fragmentation irrelevant. I wouldn't even consider it as an issue.

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7 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I think the key point is that there is already way too much content to support the relatively small multiplayer base across all terrains and aircraft era without some considerable degree of community organisation that it makes any further fragmentation irrelevant. I wouldn't even consider it as an issue.

   I'm with you. At this point, small groups need to be organised around a specific aircraft or theme, and that's pretty much that. At the end of the day, it's no different than anything else. You need to have a clear idea what you want to do and seek a group/server that suits your needs, not pop in at random and expect everyone to cater to you or make everything so open ended you can clumsily fit in. If you don't know what you want, probably need to focus on figuring that out first.


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19 minutes ago, Jarlerus said:

"fear and loathing"?? 😛 That was not my point.

 

Just having some word fun. 

 

19 minutes ago, Jarlerus said:

I mean it more matter-of-factly. Not any kind of emotional split.
If there's two distinct versions of a map, there will be a partitioning of players between them. Compare it with how ED managed the Super Carrier - at first you would have needed the Super Carrier module to even be allowed to join a server with it! So they adjusted that.


And yes, if it's only a texture difference, it's a bit easier to manage, as then everyone _could_ potentially still play on the same map. It's the mesh that is critical. (You don't want players with one version of the mesh be seen flying through terrain that is only present on other versions).

 

Now I'm not throwing this at you personally, but here and elsewhere I've noticed the MP "banana split 🍌 the community" thing boils down to either "Why should I have to pay for it like everyone else?" or "No one should be able to have that because it means we'll have to make a choice and that hurts our brains". And both arguments are a clown show.

 

The point being that if there is a hi-res mesh option possible, and even if it costs extra, the plight of the MP community should have exactly zero bearing on Razbam's decision to offer it.

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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11 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

🍌

The point being that if there is a hi-res mesh option possible, and even if it costs extra, the plight of the MP community should have exactly zero bearing on Razbam's decision to offer it.

Can't delete that banana for some reason but anyway, MP discussion should not even be here in the first place. 

Better mesh and hi-res textures option would increase sales, as people like me would pay for it. It is really that simple. With current sacrifices in place I am not going to pay for it anytime soon, and if it stays like it is now (minus the obvious improvements) not going to pay at all. 

Fortunately the voting here is with the wallet and not mp/sp affiliation.


Edited by Gierasimov
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On 6/10/2022 at 3:19 PM, YoYo said:

Perhaps you never checed Ushuaia Heliport and you wasnt below 1000ft on urban area ☺️ so all before you.

Perhaps I wasn’t, but then you’ve singled out the area around an airfield on a map of 3.1 million square km, and it’s hardly as though other maps don’t have some performance impact in complex areas.

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4 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

Can't delete that banana for some reason but anyway, MP discussion should not even be here in the first place. 

 

Bananas are forever. And I believe someone else started the MP discussion. I just jumped in.

 

4 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

Better mesh and hi-res textures option would increase sales, as people like me would pay for it. It is really that simple. With current sacrifices in place I am not going to pay for it anytime soon, and if it stays like it is now (minus the obvious improvements) not going to pay at all. 

Fortunately the voting here is with the wallet and not mp/sp affiliation.

 

 

I would pay for better mesh. Not a ton, but I'm happy to pay for my toys.

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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2 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Bananas are forever. And I believe someone else started the MP discussion. I just jumped in.

 

 

I would pay for better mesh. Not a ton, but I'm happy to pay for my toys.

It wasn't aimed at you personally @Beirut, and yes I am happy to pay for my toys as well. 

Observing RB discord also seems they are very serious about making the map much better. Fingers crossed.

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12 hours ago, rkk01 said:

Can anyone please direct me to camera and video tools???

Like most sims, I’m guessing there must be a set of image capture tools

You can take screenshots in game, for me it is Print Screen button, check yours in controls. Video - you need to use external software, for example Nvidia GeForce experience...

... and also, this question is off topic here, there is a thread for those in the forum already. 

Here: https://forum.dcs.world/forum/68-screenshots-and-videos/

 


Edited by Gierasimov
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1 minute ago, Gierasimov said:

You can take screenshots in game, for me it is Print Screen button, check yours in controls. Video - you need to use external software, for example Nvidia GeForce experience...

Thanks @Gierasimov… I’d been using PrtScrn but wondered if there were any more sophisticated tools such aperature and exposure etc

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Yesterday I did longer trip (2h), sightseeing flight on Apache on part of land of SA map.

Id like to add that everything was ok for me on this part of map. Many trees, good, high quality textures, good mesh also.

I visited this part of map, near Punta Arenas, to south and west:

w2me8HW.jpg

ZXx5qu2.jpg

only forest's areas optimization could be better (plus city from Punta Arenas to south for sure), its worse than in Syria or the Caucasus (stuter is noticable at low level, only that spoiled the final impressions in VR 😳), but otherwise my impressions were very positive in this part - mesh, textures, vegetation. :thumbup:

 


Edited by YoYo
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@YoYo - did you happen to capture FPS during your VR sessions?  Just wondering what you're getting.

 

Edit - I see you did a nice writeup here.  Disregard my request.

 


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28 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

@YoYo - did you happen to capture FPS during your VR sessions?  Just wondering what you're getting.

You can check this topic below, outside urban area (but not with big forest) FPS are perfect (stable 45 for G2 with MR=on). 

 

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A lot of people are saying it's overpriced. I don't agree given the detail of Stanley and an other townships and airbases, etc.

It's in EA with a lot of work to complete (terrain mesh, penguins, sea lions, etc;)

Thanks to the Razbam team!  I'm just having fun flying around and sightseeing without dropping warheads on foreheads yet.

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3 hours ago, nighthawk06 said:

A lot of people are saying it's overpriced. I don't agree given the detail of Stanley and an other townships and airbases, etc.

 

 

Agreed. It's less expensive then several of the planes, about the same price as many of the planes, and it's not even the most expensive map. It's also a yuuuge map and it represents a milestone in DCS expanding the sandbox.  I'm really enjoying it.

 

To say it's overpriced is to ignore the cold hard truth that DCS can be/is an expensive pastime. How many of us here are solidly into the four digits when we add up the expenditures of software and hardware? 

 

I agree with you, the map is not overpriced.

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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I'm so far happy with the early access level performance of SA map. Below an example of what I get flying a M2000 over Ushuaia low level with two different settings and ASW enabled on Quest2 @90hz max resolution. Obviously Multiplayer settings (MP) which are lower offer stable 45 fps with minimum ghosting at 3-9 line.

CX_2022-06-18_09-06-51_DCS_SA_M2000_Usu@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_MP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11) 1024 frame.png

CX_2022-06-18_09-08-56_DCS_SA_M2000_Usu@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_SP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11) 1024 frame.png

DCS_MP_settings.JPG

DCS_SP_settings.JPG

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22 minutes ago, diamond26 said:

I'm so far happy with the early access level performance of SA map. Below an example of what I get flying a M2000 over Ushuaia low level with two different settings and ASW enabled on Quest2 @90hz max resolution. Obviously Multiplayer settings (MP) which are lower offer stable 45 fps with minimum ghosting at 3-9 line.

CX_2022-06-18_09-06-51_DCS_SA_M2000_Usu@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_MP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11) 1024 frame.png

CX_2022-06-18_09-08-56_DCS_SA_M2000_Usu@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_SP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11) 1024 frame.png

DCS_MP_settings.JPG

DCS_SP_settings.JPG

Better to add this in to the Bug section, that authors of SA map to have complex info to solve it (btw. red on GPU means stutter, notice how FPS jumps on it, you can campare Caucasu map for example or PG near city too, you reched even 15 fps, and median is about 28-30 I suppose).

My settings: http://yoyosims.pl/sites/default/files/Obrazki/WMR/dcs_vr_settingsmain.jpg


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14 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Better to add this in to the Bug section, that authors of SA map to have complex info to solve it (btw. red on GPU means stutter, notice how FPS jumps on it, you can campare Caucasu map for example or PG near city too, you reched even 15 fps, and median is about 28-30 I suppose).

 

 

I guess you are not familiar with CapframeX legend. Red is just a color for GPU as blue is for CPU max thread, it doesn't mean stuttering. I understand your comments about FPS jumping are against my high settings which makes sense. Lowest FPS figure as you can see for the diagram is P0.1 at 23 fps. The same for lower settings(MP graph)  is 40.1 FPS. The difference between the two setups (SP vs MP) is the high ghosting on 3-9 lin eon SP which I can understand at this point of the map development and the busy scenery in Ushuaia. Similar behavior you can find over Aleppo in Syria

 

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11 minutes ago, diamond26 said:

I guess you are not familiar with CapframeX legend. Red is just a color for GPU as blue is for CPU max thread, it doesn't mean stuttering. I understand your comments about FPS jumping are against my high settings which makes sense. Lowest FPS figure as you can see for the diagram is P0.1 at 23 fps. The same for lower settings(MP graph)  is 40.1 FPS. The difference between the two setups (SP vs MP) is the high ghosting on 3-9 lin eon SP which I can understand at this point of the map development and the busy scenery in Ushuaia. Similar behavior you can find over Aleppo in Syria

 

Btw. what is for you "low level" on fast jet? I'll test M2000 from Ushuaia airport.

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12 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Btw. what is for you "low level" on fast jet? I'll test M2000 from Ushuaia airport.

Mostly 60-100 ft AGL with a pop-up to 3000 ft to see how it behaves looking from high to low while decenting  

On the topic of perfromance of maps, if SA is at this level now (at least for my system) and they keep improving as everybody else did on maps, I expect similar perfromance as Syria map today, when is out of EA.

For comparison this is M2000 over Aleppo at SP settings

CX_2022-06-18_10-15-52_DCS_M2000 over Aleppo@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_SP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11)1024 frame.png

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1 hour ago, diamond26 said:

Mostly 60-100 ft AGL with a pop-up to 3000 ft to see how it behaves looking from high to low while decenting  

On the topic of perfromance of maps, if SA is at this level now (at least for my system) and they keep improving as everybody else did on maps, I expect similar perfromance as Syria map today, when is out of EA.

For comparison this is M2000 over Aleppo at SP settings

CX_2022-06-18_10-15-52_DCS_M2000 over Aleppo@90 5408x2736 _PD 1.0 FOV 0.8_VRperfkit 0.3_FFR_ASW ON_SP settings (2.7.15) Kegetys (v40+Win11)1024 frame.png

For me here is tragedy (the reproject totally doesn't work because the FPS jumps are too great just like in your diagram), works a lot of worse over Aleppo, when I have 20-21ms and quite stable FPS (if you want you can do the same screenshot with visible FPS and GPU load history).

xdoqyZE.jpg

M2bqxq9.jpg


Edited by YoYo

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48 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Interesting this seems to hit the GPU times hard. I bet Aleppo hits CPU more still.

No. This is SA map "feature", CPU has the same, or similar load. GPU is not keeping up which proves the lack of optimization for - textures, LOD, objects, or one God knows what :unsure:. I hope they'll fix this.

Aleppo, a lot bigger city than Ushuaia, and most demending place for me for FPS:

Not perfect, but acceptable,  Ushuaia works 30% worse (its a big impact), 20-22 ms over Aleppo, 30-33 ms over Ushuaia (or more).

Oddly enough, SA has less detail on and around the buildings, so the more the results should be much better than in Syria even. Something is not serious here.

StofMq4.jpg

I will not write about the Caucasus or even the great Dubai city - great performance 16-18ms, very stable FPS:

MsxAxkf.jpg


Edited by YoYo
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