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Why doesn't Eagle Dynamics provide a basic military standard controller package, for modern flight sticks?


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I don't understand why ED does not provide us with a default package, for default standard military configurations. For like the X-56. Or Thrustmaster Warthog. 

This stuff costs a lot of money, and I think it would be fair to get a basic lua file. When you buy their cockpits. 

Its really confusing, and takes hours to setup. 

Maybe I am stupid, but this is really complicated stuff. I wish ED had a more comprehensible way of getting us setup. 

Just youtubing stuff, doesn't really help. I wish they had a full on training program and software packages to install to get you flight sticks setup. 

 I mean Eagle Dynamics is  a big deal. DCS is the is as good as it gets when it comes to military simulations. 

I wish they would acknowledge, that setting up these aircraft, especially the AH64D can be difficult and close to impossible. 

Without, professional help. I mean I willing to pay someone to set this up for me. It just, like you buy the cockpit and nothing works. 

 Like I had the X-52, it was falling apart, but it worked with the F-18C. But the AH64D was not working, so I bought the X-56. Still don't work, and having issues with my jet fighters as well. 

My point is, I wish ED would take HOTAS configurations more seriously. So we don't have to spend hours or even day trying to figure this out. 

Other people got the AH64D to fly, I can't do it. It just spins out of control. 

I love ED very much, I just whish they had more support in getting your flight controls setup with a basic military setup. With a package. 

Charge me for it, all buy that!  ED makes a package that is guaranteed to work on your flight sticks. The most common and modern ones.  

I think once you buy a high fidelity cockpit, like the F18-C, you should be able to select your flight stick. Then you get the proper configuration files for that flight stick. For all the basic functionality. In a addition to a map of the of the controls. If it means more money, I don't care. What's the point of buying an $80 dollar cockpit and have no idea how to configure it? 

It just takes up to much time. And if things are not working then what? Just You Tubing all day.  


Edited by AH64D
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1 hour ago, AH64D said:

setting up these aircraft, especially the AH64D can be difficult and close to impossible.

 

Yet most users can do it, as it is not any different from configuring your controls on other simulators ... none comes pre-configured simply because of the large number of different controller configurations that people can have.

 

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I'm lost by what you mean by 'package'?  I'm also confused by what you mean that your HOTAS works with the FA/18, but with the AH64 it was "not working"? Are you saying you bound the same axis/buttons to the AH64 that you had bound on the FA/18 but DCS did not recognise them? That sounds quite weird. DCS should pick up your controller if you have it bound to an action regardless of what airframe you are using.

Or are you saying that  you can't figure out how to configure your peripherals in DCS in a way that allows you to fly out of the box? 

I for one would be against ED taking time and resources away from other development to do a whole bunch of user control settings for all the different kinds of HOTAS that are out there, and then still get complaints that they should do it a different way, etc. That's a task much better suited for the user community to help out (and there is help available in the user community - see below). 

The problem with this (for starters), the X52 & X56 are generic controllers. I don't think there's a single official way to configure these that would suit everyone. Because it's not an exact replica of the actual cockpit controls for the aircraft different people are going to configure them different way for the style of flying and fighting that most suits them. Some want them mapped as close as possible to realism, others want them mapped to be similar across airframes. Which would ED do?

For instance - I have a generic HOTAS and I have mine configured so that the same controls do similar functions across airframes - even though in the real aircraft these controls would do something else. One of my friends I fly with prefer to have their controls setup to match realism - so buttons will be vastly different. This is user preference, something that no one can do a pre-configuration for that suits everyone. 

Another problem is that it's not just a matter of binding HOTAS and expecting to be able to use the aircraft's systems. You still need to learn each individual system and how to use weapons - so even getting a preconfigured HOTAS doesn't help. 

However if what you're asking for is for someone to just setup your controls in 'any way' that will work and then have a manual or youtube video that will show you what does what - I think there's plenty of user files around already where that will work that you can just import.

However I think the better approach is for you to get an understanding of what needs to be bound to perform a certain task, and then learn that task. Grim Reapers do a good job of training video's for beginners where they first show the binding required for a particular task, , and then next how to use them. Since they show the binding configuration - you can use any HOTAS and decide which buttons you prefer - which works well because different people have different controllers.

IIRC I think Grim Reapers also have a 1 on 1 help option available for training and setting up which you can pay for as well, so if you're willing to pay for help - it might be worth contacting them as I reckon they could get you started if you're finding difficulty yourself.

One word of advise though. Once you get your configurations setup the way you want - export and make a backup of your settings - I've had DCS overwrite or 'lose' the settings on more than one occasion (thankfully not recently), but still - once you get them setup it's very handy to have a backup you can restore back from.

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Some flight controllers do have default button maps built-in to DCS for some modules. For example, if you buy a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle and the A-10C module, it'll work for you right away. But there are a lot of different controller options, especially if you start mixing and matching sticks, throttles, and button boxes. Making default bindings for all of them would be a huge amount of work.

Plus, there isn't always a single correct answer to how a controller should be button mapped. In the case of the Warthog and the A-10C module it's pretty easy - the controller is the same as the one in the aircraft, so it's set up for all the controller buttons to do what they do in real life. But use that same Warthog to fly a Hornet, and how do you map it? There's a lot of personal preference that goes into deciding how you would like to use the flight stick you have to control a specific aircraft. The problem is even more pronounced with something like the X56, which has no real-world analog and will never be a 1:1 map to any aircraft. Where one player likes to map the Weapon Select Switch in the Hornet may be a completely different place than where another player does. 

Personally, I take quite a bit of enjoyment from planning out what all the different buttons on my controllers are going to do for any aircraft. It's part of my learning process for a new aircraft, as it forces me to understand what the HOTAS controls for the real aircraft do. It's why I've spent a fair amount of time drawing up templates for different flight controllers that I can use to plan out how I want to map a controller, and use as a reference for when I need to remember them after a long time away from a module. If you'd like, you can find PDF templates for the X56 in a link in my signature. 

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It doesn't help that any new module that DCS releases spams the axis controls across multiple inputs and also some main buttons like Button 1 & 2, ED would be better of leaving it a blank canvas  in this regard.

I have really been at a loss to figure out why common keys (listed in the General Tab) cant be used across nearly all the planes and helicopters, in one common binding category.

Keys like pitch, roll, rudder, thrust, x-axis trim, y axis- trim, yaw-trim are all common across every plane, helicopters have similar common controls
keys like gear, flaps up/dpwn, speed brake in/out, master arm, AG/AA are very common too.
Other keys like F1 to F10, Communications, Wingman commands, rearm/refuel, cockpit and outside view keys are all common too.

All the above should be under the Genral tab as 95% of users will map them to the same commands if they use them on a Hotas.

Then leave complex stuff like duel throttles and other stuff to the user to map as each individual sees fit, this would help a lot with issues like the OP has mentioned.

 


Edited by Hotdognz
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9 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

It doesn't help that any new module that DCS releases spams the axis controls across multiple inputs and also some main buttons like Button 1 & 2, ED would be better of leaving it a blank canvas  in this regard.

I have really been at a loss to figure out why common keys (listed in the General Tab) cant be used across nearly all the planes and helicopters, in one common binding category.

Keys like pitch, roll, rudder, thrust, x-axis trim, y axis- trim, yaw-trim are all common across every plane, helicopters have similar common controls
keys like gear, flaps up/dpwn, speed brake in/out, master arm, AG/AA are very common too.
Other keys like F1 to F10, Communications, Wingman commands, rearm/refuel, cockpit and outside view keys are all common too.

All the above should be under the Genral tab as 95% of users will map them to the same commands if they use them on a Hotas.

Then leave complex stuff like duel throttles and other stuff to the user to map as each individual sees fit, this would help a lot with issues like the OP has mentioned.

 

 

I agree with all of that.

I use JoyPro which manages to do quite a lot of what you suggest without ever needing to use the DCS controls screens.

https://github.com/Holdi601/JoystickProfiler

 

 

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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I created "general" macro's for use with TM's Target software.
I have a communication marco, a camera/view one, a general, etc... which i can use i each script across all the modules i use.
Makes things easy and even if load the wrong HOTAS script, it's still for 90% usable because i made it work common.

Joystick Gremlin (http://whitemagic.github.io/JoystickGremlin/) is another option to get things organized.

 

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Fly the plane (or helo), trying to understand what's the most used controls, map them, test, re-map, re-test, was a lot of fun!!! ...for me 😃

Should I bind this control on the keyboard? Is more comfortable have that control on joystisck or throttle? Should i start working instead of thinking about these things? 😇 I repeat: for me that was a lot of fun for each planes i have (F-16 Viper, A-10Cii and AH664D).

And finally, I'm still "perfecting" them.

P.s. A little bit off-topic. I have only 4 buttons left for AH64D cp/g and FCR and RFI are yet to come out... I'm little bit worried... 😰

 

"If you low&slow you're BBQing, if you hot&fast you're grilling, if you low&fast you're flying an Apache"

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I used up every buttons on my HOTAS,  WASD ,↑↓←→ ,,./; combo on the keyboard and 2 PS4 controllers, and finally got everything mapped.😆

A lot buttons on the CPG Hand Grips are mouse clickable ,I think at least for the CPG station,you can still messing around by mouse clicking without binding anything to your HOTAS.


Edited by Akiazusa

Kyoto Animation forever!

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With everything I have learnt with Joy2Key, joystick gremlin and how the A10 and others use context sensitive controls plus long and short press variants I yearn to be able to program the steering wheel buttons on my car in the same manner!

AMD 5800X3D · MSI 4080 · Asus ROG Strix B550 Gaming  · HP Reverb Pro · 1Tb M.2 NVMe, 32Gb Corsair Vengence 3600MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · VIRPIL T-50CM3 Base, Alpha Prime R. VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Base. JetSeat

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