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Sniper pod, DTC, VSR radar gone from "Desired systems"?


Comrade Doge
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Here is the "desired systems" roadmap from a few weeks ago:

Screenshot_20220513-145949_Firefox.jpg

And the actual one at the moment of writing this post:

Screenshot_20220617-232518_Firefox.jpg

Notice the removal of the Sniper pod, VSR radar mode, HARM DL mode, Data Transfer Cartidge (DTC), Damage model and other things...

Can some light be shed on the situation? I find it most confusing, there was no communication over the removal of these items, as it was the case for the other ones (like PRF audio for the RWR or the AGM-154C)...


Edited by Comrade Doge
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  • Comrade Doge changed the title to Sniper pod, DTC, VSR radar gone from "Desired systems"?
  • "Sniper XR Targeting Pod."

Edited by fagulha

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Just now, jazjar said:

Wags just posted in that forum explaining the situation

Wags should have explained that before it was removed from the list. Actions like this are shady and ED has received criticism for actions like these in the past. I don't see what is keeping ED from learning from it.

Also I did delete my previous post since it had an error in it and a wrong reply

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Dear All,

After our projects staff meeting yesterday, we decided on the DCS: F-16C Viper features list that would bring it out of Early Access. There comes a point where a module is at a complete enough state (of course some will take issue of where that line is) that it provides gameplay well worth the base price. When at that point, we take it out of early access and move it to normal pricing. That does NOT mean that development ceases. The only real change is the price.

The current desired features list is regarding the state to remove it from early access – hence the topic title update and separate list. As mentioned, once out of early access, we'll release a new list of desired features to add post-early access. This list will contain all the items moved from the early access list and several more.

I have generally been making notes of all changes to the early access desired features list, but it’s on me that I forgot to make a note yesterday. Mea culpa.

Kind regards,

Wags

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Thank you @Wags for the explanation and details. We were a bit confused at first, but I'm glad it's cleared up now, especially since you mentioned all the removed items are still planned for after early access.  We appreciate all the hard work you've put in so far, and your plans for the future, which adds tremendous value to this project. All the best, CD.

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6 minutes ago, Wags said:

There comes a point where a module is at a complete enough state (of course some will take issue of where that line is) that it provides gameplay well worth the base price.

Why are the goal posts being moved now? Why has ED not determined these goal posts at EA initial release? Moving the EA release goal posts during EA development is (imo) not a thing that should be done without very careful consideration and COMPLETE transparency. Why could ED not have simply made a NEW post with a list with a NEW name instead of CHANGING the old post/list? What is wrong with the old list? What did the old list even mean? To me it seems like the old list was between a EA release points list and a "eventually we want to do this" list. Some people bought the F-16 expecting that list to be done when it eventually would leave EA.

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6 minutes ago, Tom_ said:

very careful consideration and COMPLETE transparency

It was done with careful consideration, and they just had this meeting, so its transparent as in we are notifying you as it happens. The features will come still in the same development order, but the release state will be different when some of them come, nothing really changes for anyone accept maybe the Viper can go on sale for larger amounts being out of EA.

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Just now, NineLine said:

He just changed it, we was working on the notes for it as you guys posted. 

From what I saw there was an hour between Wags posting his explanation and the list being changed.

unknown.png

This is not a message that looks like it takes an hour to come up with.

 

I am all for setting realistic expectations but it has to be done in a respectable manner. And I am of the opinion that this has not been done in a respectable manner.

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10 minutes ago, Tom_ said:

Why are the goal posts being moved now?

They're not. Subject to change. The features list was never set in stone, this should be well known by now.

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Just now, Tom_ said:

From what I saw there was an hour between Wags posting his explanation and the list being changed.

unknown.png

This is not a message that looks like it takes an hour to come up with.

 

I am all for setting realistic expectations but it has to be done in a respectable manner. And I am of the opinion that this has not been done in a respectable manner.

I apologize, maybe he was waiting for me to get home from picking up my daughter from school to post a full message, so you can blame me if you like. Regardless, we are clearing it up now. We will have a post EA list soon, but as I said, most of the stuff moved isnt really moved aside from the release state of the module, it will still come later as before. 

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1 minute ago, NineLine said:

I apologize, maybe he was waiting for me to get home from picking up my daughter from school to post a full message, so you can blame me if you like.

ED is a company. I will never blame a single person. If something went wrong it is the wrongdoing of the company. If for some reason it had to wait until you got home from whatever you were doing that should make me feel bad for criticizing ED the editing of list should also have waited.

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I dont think it is seen as a big deal, I honestly dont see it as a big deal. When these features come out, the Viper won't say Early Access anymore, that is the only difference, the schedule of release of these features is really unchanged. 

2 minutes ago, Tom_ said:

ED is a company. I will never blame a single person. If something went wrong it is the wrongdoing of the company. If for some reason it had to wait until you got home from whatever you were doing that should make me feel bad for criticizing ED the editing of list should also have waited.

 

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I don't have Community Management studies so I hope you excuse me if I'm talking rubish, but I don't think what you find important or not is relevant to us.

2 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I dont think it is seen as a big deal, I honestly dont see it as a big deal. When these features come out, the Viper won't say Early Access anymore, that is the only difference, the schedule of release of these features is really unchanged. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, NineLine said:

I dont think it is seen as a big deal, I honestly dont see it as a big deal. When these features come out, the Viper won't say Early Access anymore, that is the only difference, the schedule of release of these features is really unchanged. 

 

Let me add that I understand it was jarring to see some eagerly anticipated features vanish, so I will give you that, and will note it to management.

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4 minutes ago, Radius said:

I don't have Community Management studies so I hope you excuse me if I'm talking rubish, but I don't think what you find important or not is relevant to us.

 

Maybe not, but I started out in 2011 as one of you, I loved the game so much I worked hard to be part of it. I try to make every decision, and every report to management based on how I would feel in your shoes, I would feel shocked to see features vanish, but I am telling you that nothing has really changed, we are just going to remove the EA label earlier and some other features will follow that. Try not to over think it, its not bad, nothing is gone, and nothing is coming later. The schedule is still the same.

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4 hours ago, NineLine said:

Maybe not, but I started out in 2011 as one of you, I loved the game so much I worked hard to be part of it. I try to make every decision, and every report to management based on how I would feel in your shoes, I would feel shocked to see features vanish, but I am telling you that nothing has really changed, we are just going to remove the EA label earlier and some other features will follow that. Try not to over think it, its not bad, nothing is gone, and nothing is coming later. The schedule is still the same.

In terms of putting yourself in our shoes, can you please unlock the AIM-120 Split S thread? There was good information being posted there and it's now been locked for almost a week. 

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1 hour ago, AlexCaboose said:

In terms of putting yourself in our shoes, can you please unlock the AIM-120 Split S thread? There was good information being posted there and it's now been locked for almost a week. 

The dev that was interacting was moving this week, when he is ready I will open it up again, and I have flagged the last post to him already.

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