Mirage 2000C 06/2022 update presentation

[Vyacheslav]

Hi Tested the updated Mirage. Fuel consumption is normal, 1530 kilograms in afterburner was enough for four and a half minutes. Accelerated on the afterburner from 600 km / h to 1100 km / h in 20 seconds. The maximum speed near the ground is 1520 km / h. Bank at an altitude of 4572(speed 600 km/h) meters with 1568 kg of fuel and two magics 27 seconds at a turn rate of 13.3 degrees per second. The ground 18 seconds turn. 

"Привет
Потестил обновленный Mirage.
Расход топлива норм, 1530 килограмм на форсаже хватило на четыре с половиной минуты. Разогнался на форсаже с 600 км/ч до 1100 км/ч за 20 секунд.
Максимальная скорость у земли 1520 км/ч. Вираж на высоте 4572 метра(скорость 600 км/ч) с топливом 1568 кг и двумя маджиками 27 секунд при скорости разворота 13,3 градуса в секунду.
У земли 18 секунд вираж." 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Vyacheslav

[Rongor]

I think the stability during landing approaches has decreased.

You have to adjust throttle constantly in APP mode and still the AoA-guide brackets will run up and down erratically, no mater how gentle you apply adjustments.

Also the necessary throttle to keep her on the glide slope at approach speed seems to have increased. I am always short of pushing throttle into afterburner to maintain angle on speed.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Rongor

[PLUTON]

+1

[Tavo89]

A few days ago I bought the M2000C and I really like this module, it is well balanced and the rumors are unfounded. 

They are doing a great job with the M2000C, I would like to see more advanced models of this aircraft, but I know there is little information and it is not planned at this time.

 

[sedenion]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:42 PM, Rongor said:

I think the stability during landing approaches has decreased.

You have to adjust throttle constantly in APP mode and still the AoA-guide brackets will run up and down erratically, no mater how gentle you apply adjustments.

Also the necessary throttle to keep her on the glide slope at approach speed seems to have increased. I am always short of pushing throttle into afterburner to maintain angle on speed.

On the contrary, I was realy amazed by the new flight model comparing to the previous one. Purely subjective but I found that landing is now easier, more natural and feel more realistic than before.

One thing that changed is that before, if you followed exactly indications and manual, you indeed landed but almost like a robot, on the other hand outside this precise range, landing was terrible. Now, the continuum is well better, and you actually can land a lot more smoothly by "feeling" without keeping your eyes stuck on parameters.

[Lynnux]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:42 PM, Rongor said:

I think the stability during landing approaches has decreased.

You have to adjust throttle constantly in APP mode and still the AoA-guide brackets will run up and down erratically, no mater how gentle you apply adjustments.

Also the necessary throttle to keep her on the glide slope at approach speed seems to have increased. I am always short of pushing throttle into afterburner to maintain angle on speed.

Do you mean with APP mode that you land on autopilot or just manually with the HUD being in APP ? If you didn't try it yet: Do a landing on autopilot and the throttle should be fine. At least it is for me. After switching off the AP the nose will drop and you have to compensate. "Overreacting" here causes speed loss which you have to also compensate => landing more instable...

With all the recent changes of the flight model, FCS, engine, reaction on turbolences near the ground etc. the Mirage controls feel more sensitive than 1.5 years ago, when the Mirage was "rock stable". But we will get used to it

[ivo]

Hi to all, I want ask you now has been implemented the hypoxia effect ?

[Red_Pilot]

I'm thinking about buying this plane, but I'm not very impressed with the textures yet. Are there any plans to upgrade? More metal effect, shine in the sun, more detailed textures?

[Kercheiz]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:49 PM, Red_Pilot said:

I'm thinking about buying this plane, but I'm not very impressed with the textures yet. Are there any plans to upgrade? More metal effect, shine in the sun, more detailed textures?

There are lots of liveries available

For instance this one is amazing:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/fr/files/3318873/

 

 

 

[FLANKERATOR]

Hey guys

anybody know the exact application of the FBW5 switch in the M2?
What is the purpose and when it can be used?

 

[THERION]

21 minutes ago, FLANKERATOR said:

Hey guys

anybody know the exact application of the FBW5 switch in the M2?
What is the purpose and when it can be used?

 

This application does have an impact on the fly by wire system, namely between light and heavy load. So, if you carry some bombs and fuel tanks,
you'd rather choose the position "Charges" lower switch position and for A/A missions the upper switch position. This changes the G-limits of your
plane.

[Kercheiz]

It's enabling the emergency FBW channel which gives direct elevon control. No more AoA or G control.

[FLANKERATOR]

Thanks but when would one use it in real life? Is it to get out of a spin, stall or things like that? or are there other applications?
EDIT: I remember Razbam posted detailed info about this particular switch but I can not find it anymore.

Edited March 23, 2023 by FLANKERATOR

[Kercheiz]

8 hours ago, FLANKERATOR said:

Thanks but when would one use it in real life? Is it to get out of a spin, stall or things like that? or are there other applications?
EDIT: I remember Razbam posted detailed info about this particular switch but I can not find it anymore.

 

Never. It's a testing switch for ground crew. The spin switch is here for the purpose you mention. It's unsure if the CDVE5 switch would even do something airborne, but we let it so that you can try flying the mode, waiting for implementation of USEL failures (see below)

In real life the CDVE5 (also called USEL on the warning panel) automatically engages in cases all FBW channel redundancy is lost. It's very challenging to fly as the aircraft has a tendency to backflip, pilots train to landing on it on the sim.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Kercheiz

[FLANKERATOR]

51 minutes ago, Kercheiz said:

Never. It's a testing switch for ground crew. The spin switch is here for the purpose you mention. It's unsure if the CDVE5 switch would even do something airborne, but we let it so that you can try flying the mode, waiting for implementation of USEL failures (see below)

In real life the CDVE5 (also called USEL on the warning panel) automatically engages in cases all FBW channel redundancy is lost. It's very challenging to fly as the aircraft has a tendency to backflip, pilots train to landing on it on the sim.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer. 
So if I understood correctly: it's an emergency back up mode that engages automatically when all other FBW channels are gone.

A few more questions please:
1- Can the pilot manually engage the CDVE5 while airborne or only ground crew when plane is stationary? 
2- If answer to 1 was "yes", does this CDVE5 behave the same way whether all other FBW channels are still operating or not, it is as hard to handle in any case or would it be easier to handle if CDVE5 was the only channel operating?
3-  is there a different spin switch to be used for departure recovery and if so what is the official name of this switch (just spin switch?) and where is it located in the M2 cockpit please?

Apology for all the question marks, I am trying to wrap my head around this switch and to what extent it can be used in DCS in a realistic way.

 

[Kercheiz]

25 minutes ago, FLANKERATOR said:

Thanks for the detailed answer. 
So if I understood correctly: it's an emergency back up mode that engages automatically when all other FBW channels are gone.

A few more questions please:
1- Can the pilot manually engage the CDVE5 while airborne or only ground crew when plane is stationary? 
2- If answer to 1 was "yes", does this CDVE5 behave the same way whether all other FBW channels are still operating or not, it is as hard to handle in any case or would it be easier to handle if CDVE5 was the only channel operating?
3-  is there a different spin switch to be used for departure recovery and if so what is the official name of this switch (just spin switch?) and where is it located in the M2 cockpit please?

Apology for all the question marks, I am trying to wrap my head around this switch and to what extent it can be used in DCS in a realistic way.

 

1 - DCS yes - IRL to be confirmed
2 - It gives exactly the same control as USEL failure
3 - DCS and IRL - Yes, VRILLE

Additional info : at low speed it gives a high risk of flipover, at high speed wing failure.

You can be transparent, I know your questions are dogfight tournament rules related

Edited March 23, 2023 by Kercheiz

[FLANKERATOR]

Amazing! Thanks a lot for the clarification! Yes its related to competitive dogfighting.
The Su-27 in DCS for example has the Direct Control switch for the Cobra maneuver which is a move that could be used in a dogfight so I wanted to understand the use case and limitations of the CDVE5 (FBW5) switch in the M2.

So according to your answers, this button should never be touched by the pilot or at least until it has been proven to be of any use in a close dogfight.
For departures, the right switch to employ is VRILLE. 

[myHelljumper]

On 3/23/2023 at 12:00 PM, FLANKERATOR said:

Amazing! Thanks a lot for the clarification! Yes its related to competitive dogfighting.
The Su-27 in DCS for example has the Direct Control switch for the Cobra maneuver which is a move that could be used in a dogfight so I wanted to understand the use case and limitations of the CDVE5 (FBW5) switch in the M2.

So according to your answers, this button should never be touched by the pilot or at least until it has been proven to be of any use in a close dogfight.
For departures, the right switch to employ is VRILLE. 

With this mode activated, the pilot has complete control over the elevons/rudder. Since the aircraft is unstable the pilot will have to use special and unconventional care to the flight controls.

This should not be used in a dogfight as it will 99% of the time result in a loss of control. I guess you could consider it an "exploit" as you would be able to attain AoA not possible otherwise but the probability of controling with aircraft in these condition is very low.

Banning it in competition could make sense as it would prevent reaching these AoA altogether. But from my understanding the switch function will change in the future and this control mode will not be reacheable unless the aircraft has recieved serious damage.

Edit: If the Su-27 Direct Control is banned, this mode should also be banned, if not, I don't see why it would be an issue :).

Edited March 24, 2023 by myHelljumper

[FLANKERATOR]

7 hours ago, myHelljumper said:

With this mode activated, the pilot has complete control over the elevons/rudder. Since the aircraft is unstable the pilot will have to use special and unconventional care to the flight controls.

This should not be used in a dogfight as it will 99% of the time result in a loss of control. I guess you could consider it an "exploit" as you would be able to attain AoA not possible otherwise but the probability of controling with aircraft in these condition is very low.

Banning it in competition could make sense as it would prevent reaching these AoA altogether. But from my understanding the switch function will change in the future and this control mode will not be reacheable unless the aircraft has recieved serious damage.

Edit: If the Su-27 Direct Control is banned, this mode should also be banned, if not, I don't see why it would be an issue :).

 

Yes we banned this emergency mode in the M2 because although the plane seems to very twitchy and hard to tame when this mode is on, some still toggle it on and off just enough to pull off questionable stunts.
I wish some DCS event fired in the backend whenever this button is used as watching the ACMI seems to be the only way to detect this violation.

Direct Control in the Flanker is not banned as it behaves sanely (nose authority for the Cobra move)  and it is unforgiving if one pulls too hard or engages it over 500km/h, plus it drains speed substantially.

 

[myHelljumper]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:27 PM, FLANKERATOR said:

Direct Control in the Flanker is not banned as it behaves sanely (nose authority for the Cobra move)  and it is unforgiving if one pulls too hard or engages it over 500km/h, plus it drains speed substantially.

That's the same for this mode, it will brake the plane if engaged at high speed and will bleed speed.

But I won't dictate the rules of your tournament.

[karapus78]

Hi all! Today I got into the M-2000, a hot start, and the Marsillaise began to play in the cockpit, and the autopilot lights winked at her in time.

[PLUTON]

Question:
Is the Mirage 2000 completely finished?
or Razbam gives all his time to the F15E?
Because it's been a while since I heard about an update for this one!
However, there is still a lot of work to be done on the 2000!
Please give us some news (on this forum)

[Ramsay]

18 hours ago, PLUTON said:

Is the Mirage 2000 completely finished?

AFAIK the Mirage 2000C is mostly complete i.e. by most reasonable "standards" it is finished with the exception of the training missions, etc. that need to be updated.

That said IIRC there are some things the devs would like to add/improve such as the hyd system for better damage/system failure modelling, more accurate wind milling for engine restarts/flame out landings, better cluster weapon modelling/effects (Belouga), etc. - these are less "missing features" and more the devs own wish list items that shouldn't be held against them as they work to resolve bugs and features on the F-15E and AV-8B.

Currently the devs are working on improving Mirage to Mirage IFF modelling which was never part of the original DCS roadmap

Quote

17/10/2023
Few more thing on the IFF:

mode 1, 2, 3 are not encrypted so anyone can get a positive answer from these modes if they have the correct code
So better turn them off when fencing in

In mode 4, there will be a audible alarm and a light (IFF light right of the accelerometer) when you are being interrogated and you are not responding either because the interrogation does not have the correct codes, you have mode 4 disabled, your codes have been erased or your transponder is broken

The mode 4 codes will be erased 1 minute after main gear compression unless you set the mode 4 code knob to hold.

Obliviously all this is WIP and subject to change.

18 hours ago, PLUTON said:

However, there is still a lot of work to be done on the 2000!

???

Edited October 23, 2023 by Ramsay

[Volator]

3 hours ago, Ramsay said:

AFAIK the Mirage 2000C is mostly complete i.e. by most reasonable "standards" it is finished with the exception of the training missions, etc. that need to be updated.

That said IIRC there are some things the devs would like to add/improve such as the hyd system for better damage/system failure modelling, more accurate wind milling for engine restarts/flame out landings, better cluster weapon modelling/effects (Belouga), etc. - these are less "missing features" and more the devs own wish list items that shouldn't be held against them as they work to resolve bugs and features on the F-15E and AV-8B.

Currently the devs are working on improving Mirage to Mirage IFF modelling which was never part of the original DCS roadmap

Obliviously all this is WIP and subject to change.

???

 

Pretty much this. The M2K is a very good module in its current state and very enjoyable. 

[PLUTON]

Thank you for these clarifications, one could believe in innuendo the way I formulated my sentences but that was not the case, and I did not blame the developers at Razbam for anything, it was just a question.
as for the work still to be done on the 2000, I was thinking about the engine sounds which I think is not finished because for the moment it is Mr Sédenion who is the closest but I thought that Razbam would finish the real sound by their own means from 2000?
Otherwise the 2000 is very good as it is.
Thank you for the work accomplished