correct as is British Apaches should not have FCR removed

[Luft Waffel]

In a few of the single player missions (eg PG cold start instant action) where the aircraft has the British livery equipped it shouldn't have the FCR removed as the Apache isn't operated in this configuration in the UK.

[BIGNEWY]

15 hours ago, Luft Waffel said:

In a few of the single player missions (eg PG cold start instant action) where the aircraft has the British livery equipped it shouldn't have the FCR removed as the Apache isn't operated in this configuration in the UK.

The mission designer can remove them if they wish, this will not change as we are modelling the US AH-64D regardless of country or livery. 

We are considering options for players to add and remove also when we have news we will let you all know

thanks

 

[Luft Waffel]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

The mission designer can remove them if they wish, this will not change as we are modelling the US AH-64D regardless of country or livery. 

We are considering options for players to add and remove also when we have news we will let you all know

thanks

 

If players could add or remove it themselves then it would fix both issues so you're right that would probably be the best option

[Kang]

Just make your own mission with the configuration you want. Seriously, a cold start free flight mission doesn't take that much effort.

[Luft Waffel]

42 minutes ago, Kang said:

Just make your own mission with the configuration you want. Seriously, a cold start free flight mission doesn't take that much effort.

It was an example

[FalcoGer]

On 6/23/2022 at 4:33 PM, Kang said:

Just make your own mission with the configuration you want. Seriously, a cold start free flight mission doesn't take that much effort.

Yes. I want to play that specific mission that doesn't include the radar. The solution is clearly to make my own mission to have the radar.

That was sarcasm. The solution is to have the MMA equipable while the mission is going, preferably through the rearm screen as that then ties into the forbidden equipment feature from the mission editor if the mission designer really wants to prohibit radars. It would also tie in nicely with the weight display. The only issue is the aircraft having to be shut down for the MMA to be added or removed but other stores being able to be replaced with the rotor spinning. I also plead for the same system to be used for the aux fuel tank/extra gun ammo. Why invent extra stuff and special cases all the time when you can use the existing system and expand the capabilities of that.

[Rogue Trooper]

The British Apaches have greater power output from their Rolls Royce Engines.

Whilst the transmission is the same, the Rolls Royce engines work in a far superior manner to the standard American GE Engines fitted in American Apaches when operating in hot and high combat conditions.

The difference is most notable in the Afghan war, Here the vastly superior Rolls Royce engines allowed UK apaches to fly with their FCR installed whilst American Apaches had to remove their FCR to carry the same weapon load.... if not a lower weapon load.

In DCS we only have the American Apaches fitted with poor, weak, western and decadent General Electric engines and that is that.

All UK Apache doctrines of operation are therefore rescinded to the inferior US of A doctrines of Apache use.... period! 

THIS RULE MUST BE ACCEPTED ACCROSS ALL UK SQUADRONS.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Rogue Trooper

[Raptor9]

The over-the-top editorializing notwithstanding, your statement below isn't totally accurate:

1 hour ago, Rogue Trooper said:

The difference is most notable in the Afghan war, Here the vastly superior Rolls Royce engines allowed UK apaches to fly with their FCR installed whilst American Apaches had to remove their FCR to carry the same weapon load.... if not a lower weapon load.

US Apaches operating in the same region as UK Apaches could have also carried FCR's if they chose, however it would have come at a great cost to station time and endurance. The choice to carry a reduced weapon load in theater was a function to increase fuel endurance. Otherwise, Apache crews operating in Iraq wouldn't have been using the same reduced weapons loads. The UK Apaches had different external fuel options available to their fleet, whereas the US Apaches only had the internal auxiliary fuel system (IAFS) to extend their range/endurance. Further, aside from the external fuel options, the stores loadouts of both forces were quite similar, and would be increased or decreased as necessary based on the expected fight they were going to get into; but again that had to be balanced with the required station time for the mission.

On another note, UK Apache crews operated in the southwestern regions of Afghanistan, where the elevations were overall rather low (<4,000 feet), despite the high temps in the summer. Had they been operating their AH1s in the North, Eastern or Northeastern regions of the country, where US crews were routinely flying between 8,000 to well over 10,000 feet with a weapons load, I am very confident they would be asking to take their FCRs off as well. I don't care how much power a helicopter engine can produce, nothing is getting around the fact that the air densities at those altitudes reduce the maneuverability of all helicopter types, and flying around with a sensor that was designed to fight armor but weighs several hundred of pounds is at the wrong end of the cost/benefit equation.

[M1Combat]

I think we should just remove all the UK liveries for Trooper...

Ban them.

Expressly forbidden.

Put them right next to the "cheat" category because clearly anyone wanting to use UK based liveries are just one step away from also messing with their files to add power as well so also ban the users too.

Thank you drive through.

 

[Kharrn]

Rogue likes to troll....dont feed it

on the topic:

lets just hope that we get FCR attach/deattach option for the armament (ground crew) menu at some point, so we can choose for ourself "in mission" (yes i know it would take time, but game wise im ok with some minutes).

and if a mission creator wants to make it not deattachable i hope we will see an option in the MD for it. everything else is to the mission creater (e.g. attached or deattached FCR on British AH64)....

my2cent

K

[M1Combat]

I'd be fine with just an available or not in the ME and addable or not via the re-arm tool based on ME settings and current mission supply availability.  Just like any other weapon...  as far as time taken to equip/unequip...  I'd say make it instant because ultimately "IRL" it would be added or not based on the mission and would already be there.

This just isn't "IRL"...  concessions need to be made.

Actually... I'll be fine with however ED decide to do it :).  I'm not making demands

 

[Poptart]

On 7/6/2022 at 2:54 PM, Rogue Trooper said:

The British Apaches have greater power output from their Rolls Royce Engines.

Whilst the transmission is the same, the Rolls Royce engines work in a far superior manner to the standard American GE Engines fitted in American Apaches when operating in hot and high combat conditions.

The difference is most notable in the Afghan war, Here the vastly superior Rolls Royce engines allowed UK apaches to fly with their FCR installed whilst American Apaches had to remove their FCR to carry the same weapon load.... if not a lower weapon load.

In DCS we only have the American Apaches fitted with poor, weak, western and decadent General Electric engines and that is that.

All UK Apache doctrines of operation are therefore rescinded to the inferior US of A doctrines of Apache use.... period! 

THIS RULE MUST BE ACCEPTED ACCROSS ALL UK SQUADRONS.

 

The new British AH-64Es are using the American GE engines. 

[shagrat]

Am 22.6.2022 um 22:52 schrieb Luft Waffel:

In a few of the single player missions (eg PG cold start instant action) where the aircraft has the British livery equipped it shouldn't have the FCR removed as the Apache isn't operated in this configuration in the UK.

I am pretty sure, the british AH1 Apache has the same option, to remove the FCR, if necessary... in a mission where the reduced weight would benefit the mission goals and outweigh the time and effort for the removal, they will do it.

It will be nice to have it as an option in the loadout menu, instead of the ME group options, but technically it is the same mast mounted system, AFAIK.

[Luft Waffel]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:23 PM, shagrat said:

I am pretty sure, the british AH1 Apache has the same option, to remove the FCR, if necessary... in a mission where the reduced weight would benefit the mission goals and outweigh the time and effort for the removal, they will do it.

It will be nice to have it as an option in the loadout menu, instead of the ME group options, but technically it is the same mast mounted system, AFAIK.

Would love to see any images of a British Apache without a radome, I have not ever seen this in person or even in a picture. 

Fully agree with your point about the loadout menu I think that option makes the most sense.

[MrNelz]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:54 PM, Rogue Trooper said:

The British Apaches have greater power output from their Rolls Royce Engines.

Whilst the transmission is the same, the Rolls Royce engines work in a far superior manner to the standard American GE Engines fitted in American Apaches when operating in hot and high combat conditions.

The difference is most notable in the Afghan war, Here the vastly superior Rolls Royce engines allowed UK apaches to fly with their FCR installed whilst American Apaches had to remove their FCR to carry the same weapon load.... if not a lower weapon load.

In DCS we only have the American Apaches fitted with poor, weak, western and decadent General Electric engines and that is that.

All UK Apache doctrines of operation are therefore rescinded to the inferior US of A doctrines of Apache use.... period! 

THIS RULE MUST BE ACCEPTED ACCROSS ALL UK SQUADRONS.

 

Gonna burst a couple of bubbles on this one.

The RTM322 fitted to the UK AH-64D was a conglomerate design between Rolls Royce (UK) and Turbomeca (France) (hence RTM), Rolls Royce pulled out of the joint venture and the engines are now owned, operated and maintained by SAFRAN who are..........wait for it.........French. 

The RTM322 came with it's own headaches, as the transmission wasn't uprated, the possibility for overtorque conditions (particularly at sea level in temperate climes) was greater. These RTMs were significantly derated from their original designs that power the Merlin (x3 of the things at their full output!!) and the NH90.

Loved working on the RTM322 a real beauty of a motor and yes it really proved it's worth in the hot and high environment of Afghan......we still needed that runway at Bastion though to get off with a full load on the hot days....those poor yanks must've had scars in their armpits from the amount of collective they were pulling on those days!

 

On 7/16/2022 at 3:15 AM, Poptart said:

The new British AH-64Es are using the American GE engines. 

Different motors to the ones in the D and more powerful.

[shagrat]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Luft Waffel:

Would love to see any images of a British Apache without a radome, I have not ever seen this in person or even in a picture. 

Fully agree with your point about the loadout menu I think that option makes the most sense.

They did not remove the FCR-Radar, but it is possible to remove it, same as on the US-Apaches.

There is a comment in one of Ed Macy's books, where he explained that for the Afghanistan campaign in Helmand, they decided against the removal, as the Apache had about 30% more power available compared to the US-Apaches. They still needed to check temperature and altitude restrictions, due to weight and environmental conditions.

So for DCS, basically flying an US Apache with the weaker engines, we need the option to remove the FCR, or we are stuck with ridiculous performance restrictions in hot and high conditions... The US Apaches needed to remove the FCR to adjust for the mountains they operated in, at often high temperatures.

The option to do this in the loadout menu would be the best possible compromise, though I am sure a lot of people will complain if they put FCR, 16 Hellfires and full fuel tanks in 35°C on the Nevada map, that the AH-64D is "bugged", because they can't take off...

[martinistripes]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:52 PM, Luft Waffel said:

In a few of the single player missions (eg PG cold start instant action) where the aircraft has the British livery equipped it shouldn't have the FCR removed as the Apache isn't operated in this configuration in the UK.

I'm a bit surprised ED have used British livery on a US Apache, especially in an instant action mission that comes with the module. Of course, there will always be someone that says, "wait a minute, this isn't <insert country> specification!"