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6 minutes ago, WinterH said:

When MFDs are involved, I do understand and agree with requirement for an English cockpit though

Why does this change anything?

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So.. no official announcement, right? 

From what I understood so far, OctopusG just introduced I-16 to the shop without prior notice? Same for the Fitter? One day it will just become the first line of a change log? 

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2 hours ago, draconus said:

Why does this change anything?

Because it changes literally everything. Pages and pages of MFD content, on screen labels, sub pages. All mainly text based, and no tooltips either. Arguably they too can be memorized, but a lot harder and less intuitive there. So yeah, if there's an ancient PC or a glorified tablet is involved, I'd rather it be in a language I can understand 😛

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28 minutes ago, reece146 said:

Once you learn the workflow do you really ever read the label on the gauge?

Only if I forget something... Mostly though it just flows naturally.

6 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Because it changes literally everything. Pages and pages of MFD content, on screen labels, sub pages. All mainly text based, and no tooltips either. Arguably they too can be memorized, but a lot harder and less intuitive there. So yeah, if there's an ancient PC or a glorified tablet is involved, I'd rather it be in a language I can understand 😛

Thing is though, it stops being a simulation unless there is a operator country that recoded avionics to their language. 

What's wrong with learning those several labels and memorizing some Cyrillic characters?

For example, do you know what Cy-22 is? 

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17 minutes ago, WinterH said:

...I'd rather it be in a language I can understand.

Well, looks like you just prefer western aircraft then. I never heard of russian cockpit mod for any western aircraft in DCS :hmm:

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23 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Interesting!! Can you post a link to that?

I think he meant Silver Dragon's posts on page 13 of the other thread:

 

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FWIW, given an option I'd prefer to have an English cockpit - simulate that the pilot can competently read what's being displayed and not simulating some rando trying to steal a foreign military aircraft. 😄

IIRC, Octopus-G added an English pit to the i-16 as part of coming out of early access. I'm ok with that approach - it's fine details at the end and bigger fish to fry in the meantime. TBH, I'd be ok if it never came with an English pit also but appreciate that it did. I wasn't expecting it.

It's not something to get excited about. I buy the modules for the quality of what went into them so for me it is what it is.


Edited by reece146
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5 hours ago, draconus said:

While default operator would be Russian pilot and that should be simulated the pilot can be simulated from any country still using the same aircraft (unchanged). In DCS only radio messages change in that regard

It's an easy assumption that any trained pilot would be familiar with at least the cockpit labels/warnings.

 

5 hours ago, draconus said:

Mind that Polish Su-22M4 cockpit has russian labels too and we don't use Cyrilic

The Hungarian Su-22M3s and the ones in the arabic countries had at least some level of English labeling.

 

1 hour ago, Gierasimov said:

Thing is though, it stops being a simulation unless there is a operator country that recoded avionics to their language. 

 

So unless everything is simulated to 100% accuracy in the cockpit it stops being a simulation? So for example, the Mig-21 is not a simulation because it has circuit breakers that you can't even click on to interact with them in any way (let alone have the system logic modelled)? The real cockpit had CBs that you could interact with. 

 

And again, the pilot that's flying the simulated aircraft in game presumably knows the language.

1 hour ago, Gierasimov said:

What's wrong with learning those several labels and memorizing some Cyrillic characters?

 

What's wrong with learning (depending on the complexity) several dozen up to several hundred new words in a langauge that you don't know? With those words being niche technical jargon, or abbreviations? Nothing's wrong with that at all, if you want, you can even learn Russian at a high enough level to be able to read the real life manual. But it's unreasonable to expect the vast majority of people spending several dozen hours learning skills that they can easily skip with optional settings.

 

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Well, looks like you just prefer western aircraft then. I never heard of russian cockpit mod for any western aircraft in DCS :hmm:

It's up to supply and demand, I bet that if there's enough demand for it, you can certainly find someone who's willing to translate the cockpit to your native language. The reason why this isn't the case is because I assume (and it's a bold assumption) that there are more Russian players who are familiar with the Latin alphabet and English terminology than vice versa.

 

But if we're talking about this, why don't we take it to its logical extension? Did the real Su-22M4 have any English documentation? Is the specific model that's being represented by the module from a country where English documentation would be available? I know that in Hungary, our 22s had Hungarian documentation, I highly assume this is going to be the case in Poland as well. Should we only have a Polish manual and should we expect people sign up for a Polish and a Russian language course?

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This is now drifting a bit off topic, however it seems that general assumption is ALL simmers here have excellent command of English.

What if people start to ask for cockpits in languages they understand..  French, Polish, German, Spanish....

Whatever it will be, I want realistic representation of the aircraft.

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1 hour ago, draconus said:

Well, looks like you just prefer western aircraft then. I never heard of russian cockpit mod for any western aircraft in DCS :hmm:

Very interesting logic, truely wonder how you've arrived at it. Funnily however, while it includes aircraft from everywhere, most of my favorite aircraft tends to be Russian, DCS or otherwise. If you're looking for a Russian cockpit mod however, I'd hazard to say that English forum may not quite be the venue for this venture. Just saying 😛

2 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

For example, do you know what Cy-22 is?

Had you read my earlier post, you would have seen that I've said that I can read Cyrillic, just don't understand what I read, for the most part. Moreover, in the same post, I've said that while I'm definitely NOT against it, I find inclusion of English cockpits neither mandatory to include, nor deal-breaking for non MFD aircraft when they aren't available.

It most definitely does not stop being a simulator when the things are represented in a different language as long as they work exactly the same, as expected, but I have a feeling that keeping at this discussion would be about as fruitful as having two zealots debate intricacies and pros/cons of their respective religions, so I'll rest my case 😄

Edit: Also, wouldn't it be nice if we could go back to discussing the Su-17/22. Which, funnily, happens to be one of the aircraft I'm looking forward to the most in DCS. Weird huh? 😛 Something must be wrong somewhere 😄

Re-edit: also, this seems to have gotten lost in conversation, I very much mean that English cockpits, not that important, but isn't evil either, ONLY IN ADDITION TO THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE COCKPIT. So, maybe you all got me wrong and thought that that I have argued "no original language, yes English" even though it was the exact opposite of what I was trying to say in the original post.


Edited by WinterH

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We both agree. I want Russian language cockpit with English option available. You want English and don't mind Russian option. 

Why are we all even discussing it anyway? 

What do you think of touch down / roll out modelling shown in the vid? 

It looked like the driver was struggling a bit, was he not? 

 

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6 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

You're simulating that a Russian speaking pilot is operating the aircraft, you're not simulating yourself operating the aircraft. So, changing the labels to a language that you understand is more realistic than leaving it on Russian unless you learn what everything means of course.

Obligatory 'must think in Russian' reference:

 

7 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

What do you think of touch down / roll out modelling shown in the vid? 

It looked like the driver was struggling a bit, was he not?

It is supposedly easier to fly than the Mig-23...

Anyway, I'm personally really curious about its sustained turn and high-aoa stability... as that is bugged out in the current AI flight model (and also a bit wonky in some mods in other sims that tried to model this aircraft). I'm curious what it is like in a higher fidelity flight model (and/or real life).

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Cockpit - as default russian description of course but label are in English, in special option tag - english cockpit too, as option. Sounds resonable? The same like in MiG-21bis etc. Its normal for near every module, cockpit has text of origin. I still dont know what is written in Viggen 😄 but labels (small windows) are in English Id like to remind.


Edited by YoYo
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2 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Cockpit - as default russian labels and tags of course, in special option - english too. Sounds resonable? The same like in MiG-21bis.

Sounds good. Let's ask developer what he thinks... 

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Just pity, that I dont see here IT-23 (television display). With this screen of opto sensors Su-22M4 is more useful and will be more interesting for us.

Maybe wip, Id like too see it too, we will see. :angel:

YsgTl8O.jpg

Su-22-4M-5.jpg

 


Edited by YoYo

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Somebody said to me in YT comment that it is modular and can use retrofitting. If true I don't know, I asked maintenance guy once as I noticed two jets were different and he did not want to comment. Maybe he did not know... 

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18 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Just pity, that I dont see here IT-23 (television display). With this screen of opto sensors Su-22M4 is more useful and will be more interesting for us.

Maybe wip, Id like too see it too, we will see. :angel:

YsgTl8O.jpg

Su-22-4M-5.jpg

 

 

 

The TV is removable. So most likely he just hasn't added it yet given the overall state of the cockpit. The mount points are there for it. You can also have a EW/SEAD panel there too.

 

 


Edited by Harlikwin
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Особенность двигателя АЛ-21Ф-3 не реализованы. После запуска необходимо выводить обороты двигателя на 85% на 15 секунд для снятия вибрации. Также перед взлетом прогревать двигатель на оборотах 92% 2 минуты

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34 minutes ago, Mig-29K said:

Особенность двигателя АЛ-21Ф-3 не реализованы. После запуска необходимо выводить обороты двигателя на 85% на 15 секунд для снятия вибрации. Также перед взлетом прогревать двигатель на оборотах 92% 2 минуты

See, this is good input, thank you. Maybe try posting this to the developers as well. Maybe OctopusG knows this already (I would imagine) and they are on it. It is WIP after all. 

I remember when watching them taking off (real), they would in fact warm up to stop the engine vibrations and also spool up before take-off. 

Yeah, I hope developer is knowledgeable here 🙂

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1 hour ago, Mig-29K said:

Особенность двигателя АЛ-21Ф-3 не реализованы. После запуска необходимо выводить обороты двигателя на 85% на 15 секунд для снятия вибрации. Также перед взлетом прогревать двигатель на оборотах 92% 2 минуты

I mean the whole video is a total WIP... But yeah I'm sure the devs know that, and it isn't implemented yet.

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2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

If it is Su-22, should it not have R-29 engine?

That was soviets wish, Tumansky R-29BS-300 turbojet was in surplus owing to reduction of MiG-23 -27 output. Lyulka AL-21 powerplant was needed for Su-24 and therefore in short supply. 

But, for example Poland, having rather enough of R-29, negotiated for AL-21s. 

In the end, Polish Air Force Fitters came with Al-21s. 

I also read somewhere that Soviets decided afterwards to offer Su-22 - so the export jet - to other customers with AL-21 engine only. 

I guess both R-29 and most certainly AL-21 are valid options and it will depend purely on developer and their plan of what to simulate.


Edited by Gierasimov
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Fun fact - Iraqi Air Force presented during one of their military parades, a modified Su-22M4, one aircraft was flying with IFR probe of Mirage F-1 and this was successful modification, there was even a video showing Fitter refueling from Mirage F-1 once...

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11 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

Fun fact - Iraqi Air Force presented during one of their military parades, a modified Su-22M4, one aircraft was flying with IFR probe of Mirage F-1 and this was successful modification, there was even a video showing Fitter refueling from Mirage F-1 once...

The Iraqi versions of pretty much anything were pretty interesting. I'm glad to see we will get an Iraqi MLA for example along with the less capable "classic" Soviet version

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