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Damn CPG will not fire Hellfires. PERIOD! No matter what


DmitriKozlowsky

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8 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

OK.

From a pilot seat.

Weapons ARM

Trigger guard: open

ACQ: TADS

CPG command: AGM 114K LOBL, tgt: APC1 (or another target),

Pilot: Fire 1st det.: NO LAUNCH, 2nd DET: NO LAUNCH, Consent To FIre.   In all cases. Weapon is not released, and George AI does not fire.

Hi.

I assume you are on a stable (more or less) hover, pointing in the general direction of the target and that the HellFire box is Big, yes?

Assure the Trigger guardis open.

Also check your assignements, just to pe om the safe side...

Also, if in the pilot seat, don't forget to select the HellFire with the stick control (can't recall the exact name, I think it is WAS) before every shot, as  if the previouse missile did it's job, , the CPG undesignates and then no missile is selected.

Saludos.

Saca111

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57 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This is setup from pilot seat. Target selected, ARM on, weapon selected. But CPG will not fire, and I am unable to make AI George to do so. Thus IMHO this implementation  is lacking. Its confusing.

 

So there's a few issues here.

Firstly, you've got Missiles selected yourself as the pilot. Don't do that, that's your main problem. Let the CPG select Hellfire (look for CMSL in bottom right of IHADSS). He is the one who fires Hellfire when using the TADS. (generally, but there are exceptions).

You've got 'Free Fire' for the CPG (green George interface), change it to the mode where you need to consent to fire each shot. I find that much more reliable. Map the 'Consent to Fire' button to a completely separate HOTAS button, don't use your trigger. 

Get the TADS video symbology up on your left MPD. In your picture CPG isn't actually looking at a target, the TADS is still FIXED. Make sure CPG is actually designating the target. Look for the lasing cross to know when he's lasing. Maneuver the aircraft for a solid (not dashed) constraints box. Only then give 'consent to fire'. 

(Also, you need to boresight your IHADSS, but not relevant to Hellfire)


Edited by AvroLanc
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb DmitriKozlowsky:

Damn CPG will not fire Hellfires. PERIOD! No matter what.

I don't care what CPG instructions pilot does. He won't  do it.

Weapons aiming and control is part of this module I hate on how its deployed. Its confusing and inconsistent.

 

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb DmitriKozlowsky:

OK.

From a pilot seat.

Weapons ARM

Trigger guard: open

ACQ: TADS

CPG command: AGM 114K LOBL, tgt: APC1 (or another target),

Pilot: Fire 1st det.: NO LAUNCH, 2nd DET: NO LAUNCH, Consent To FIre.   In all cases. Weapon is not released, and George AI does not fire.

nearly every thread you open starts with a complaint about the modul or "inconsistents" you describe. Though you nearly never provide enough "data" (written info; video; or better .trk file) from the start. So we cant even adequately help without putting out random guesses...

Usage of Hellfires (with George as CPG firing or with George as CPG lasing and Pilot firing) has been explained in verious threads - where you have been aktive in too.

From my experience George works pretty well with Hellfires be it LOBL or LOAL. Yes sometimes there is a  bug when George lases the ground instead of a target or (most anoying) when George switches MSL type to RF instead of SAL. But if it wont launch, in 90% of the cases when i tried it or when i looked at ppls videos, it has been a pilot error.

 

Greetings

K

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OP, from your photo, you did not actually select the target. Just setting the pointer next to target name does not mean it is selected.

Like it was said above, you complain a lot and in almost every instance it turns out to be your fault.

Did it occur to you that you should actually try and learn about this stuff before coming here to complain how it doesn't work?

1 hour ago, AvroLanc said:

Get the TADS video symbology up on your left MPD. In your picture CPG isn't actually looking at a target, the TADS is still FIXED. Make sure CPG is actually designating the target. Look for the lasing cross to know when he's lasing. Maneuver the aircraft for a solid (not dashed) constraints box. Only then give 'consent to fire'. 

(Also, you need to boresight your IHADSS, but not relevant to Hellfire)

There will be no solid box until CPG starts lasing and he will not do that until you give him a target to lase. For IHADSS, OP still "doesn't know how to do it". It's two months since releasee and he still doesn't know how to B/S IHADSS, I guess he wants us to tell him how.

 

5 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

None of the George AI Helper commands change color. This makes no sense to me. It is inconsistent, becouse the feedback is .. I don't. It does not tell me anything actionable.

Yes, they will. Page 334 of DCS Apache manual.

BTW, I will stop trying to help you from now on unless you provide either track file or video of what you are doing.


Edited by admiki
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vor 25 Minuten schrieb DmitriKozlowsky:

None of the George AI Helper commands change color. This makes no sense to me. It is inconsistent, becouse the feedback is .. I don't. It does not tell me anything actionable.

Last try with a shameless copy and paste from the QUICK START MANUAL:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/upload/iblock/ae5/1gklim4idv5p6s46zmgduj55g4m47mlo/DCS_AH-64D_Quick_Start_Manual_EN.pdf

See page 325-336 (yes you have to actually read them!)

Zitat

You can move your head to place the HMD LOS reticle on a target, then press Interface Up Short to designate it.

The designation command orders George to slave the TADS to your HMD LOS reticle and scan along your HMD line of sight. It may take a moment for George to set his acquisition source to PHS, press SLAVE, and the TADS to slew to that location.
George will scan the designated area for targets. If a single target is found, George will track it and report its type (range permitting).

If multiple targets are found, you will be shown a list of possible targets, and you can use the AI Interface commands to select a target to track (Interface Right Short). The target
list will be sorted in threat order (air defense targets at the top).

If you do not want George to track any of the targets listed, press Interface Left Short to cancel and remove the target list. Once a target is designated, George
will observe it using the TADS and switch to a narrower field-of-view.

Zitat

To employ Hellfire missiles against George’s tracked target, you must fly the helicopter to align the Hellfire missile constraints box as described in the Longbow
Hellfire Modular Missile System section (see
Missile Constraints Box in the Combat Employment section). Once the helicopter is within missile launch constraints,
George will act according to the current ROE:


If ROE is green (Weapons Free), George will launch and guide a Hellfire
missile as soon as launch parameters are met.

If ROE is yellow (Weapons Hold), George will wait for your consent to fire
the missile. Consent is given with the Consent To Fire command binding.

[[ this is still wrong in the manual cause there it says green is "hold".. ]]


Once the Hellfire either hits the target, George will stop designating the target and switch to a wider field-of-view in the TADS.

Also @admiki provided relevant information for you.

Hope you will find a way (or your way) to get good... Else i would advise to look for an online teacher who can explain the AH64D to you. I know that eading manuals can be confusing at times - but it is the starting point for complex modules like this. (not mentioning all those very good youtube vids here...)


Edited by Kharrn
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Wags videos are also a  very good source of info. Suggest watching the one that pertains to what you are doing in each phase of learning, in addition to reading up on it.

12 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

None of those change the AI helper color. No matter how many seconds I hold them down or single click or double click.  But maybe my finger gymnastic are not yet mastered.

GeorgeAI_Helper_cmd.jpg

 

Edit never mind second part, deleted - not fully awake yet.


Edited by dburne

Don B

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13 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Under Pilot for GeorgeAI there are three commands.

Consent To Fire

Show/Hide George interface

Request Control

None of which cause GeorgeAI to fire Hellfires or any weapons as far as I can tell. 

 

I have been working hard on the live fire weapon ranges the last few days getting used to my new cyclic hardware, they do work as intended and not so hard once you get your arms wrapped around working with George AI when flying as a pilot.  Check this video by Wags, it covers both CP/G seats and Pilot Seat. Pilot I believe is in the latter part of the video. I find Wags videos an invaluable resource to watch as I am learning.

 

 


Edited by dburne

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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24 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Under Pilot for GeorgeAI there are three commands.

Consent To Fire

Show/Hide George interface

Request Control

None of which cause GeorgeAI to fire Hellfires or any weapons as far as I can tell. 

George works reliably for everyone else. The problems you need to fix (based on your screenshot) are:

  1. Do not have the weapon actioned yourself
  2. Actually select the target in the list, this requires pressing the "George interface right" command once you have scroleld to the correct target. At that point the target list should disappear, and George will focus on just that target. 
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26 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Under Pilot for GeorgeAI there are three commands.

Consent To Fire

Show/Hide George interface

Request Control

None of which cause GeorgeAI to fire Hellfires or any weapons as far as I can tell. 

 

Provide a track and someone will be able to point out where it's going wrong.

GeorgeAI does work perfectly fine.

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Those were static helos on the tarmac. But anyway. I have yet to have my George fire any weapon. Not just Hellfire , at any target. Static, moving armored, infantry, moving armor. I can manually , from pilot seat, fire gun and rockets. But if I fire Hellfire at TADS target, Hellfire flies up and into distance, with no guidance. I scroll GeorgeAI down the target list. Manually fire Hellfire, and it just flies off without guidance. George ain't lasing, even though it reports 'Lasing'. So go figure! I think the process is lacking. But its early release.

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11 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Those were static helos on the tarmac. But anyway. I have yet to have my George fire any weapon. Not just Hellfire , at any target. Static, moving armored, infantry, moving armor. I can manually , from pilot seat, fire gun and rockets. But if I fire Hellfire at TADS target, Hellfire flies up and into distance, with no guidance. I scroll GeorgeAI down the target list. Manually fire Hellfire, and it just flies off without guidance. George ain't lasing, even though it reports 'Lasing'. So go figure! I think the process is lacking. But its early release.


This particular feature has been working since day 1 of early access, so there’s another issue…….(I’m taking suggestions everyone).
Once you scroll the target list, you need to press AI interface right short to select the target. 
Your problem is (partly at least) you are trying to fire when you should let George ‘WAS’ the weapon and then give him a consent to fire. 
There are plenty of tutorials out there. 

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For those of us that eagerly awaited the release of the AH-64D module for months before it launched, we would relish the days when Wags would release a new instructional video.  We would watch it several times, then hop on the forums to post questions and discuss what was revealed in them.

As a late-comer to the party, I can understand the desire to just jump in and make stuff happen, but it sounds like you need to do some prep work ahead of time to understand how the systems work. 

There is the official manual that ED released with the module, and there are hours of instructional videos in Wags' channel.  At a minimum, I would suggest you watch the videos in chronological order.  If something isn't working for you like it does for him in the video, post a screenshot and we can try to catch the issue and help you, like was already done for your screenshot above.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLer9oF4AanvF7CTss44TU4aDOxb5A9Jic

 

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4 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

... if I fire Hellfire at TADS target, Hellfire flies up and into distance, with no guidance. I scroll GeorgeAI down the target list. Manually fire Hellfire, and it just flies off without guidance. George ain't lasing, even though it reports 'Lasing'.

And that is your "problem", as pilot you do NOT fire the Hellfire. George lases and fires - either autonomously (Weapons Free) or with your consent (Consent to fire button).

This is my AI George crib sheet, perhaps it can help.

Spoiler

 

Quote

AI Helper Toggle [LCtrl+V]

AI Mode
=======
Short Left = Cycle AI Mode --> Hover-Bob up, Combat, CMWS and Flight

H-B
===
Short Up/Aft = Increase/Decrease Altitude

Long Left/Right = Translate Left/Right
Long Forward/Aft = Translate Forward/Aft

Short Right = Align nose with IHADS cross

Flight
======
Short Forward/Aft = Increase/Decrease Speed (+10 KIAS)

Long Forward/Aft = Increase/Decrease Altitude

Long Right/Left = Move Heading indicator (and release)

Short Right = Align nose with IHADS

Combat
======

Left = Weapon Cycle Missiles/Rockets/Gun
Right = Burst/Salvo Quantity

Short Up = Look for targets at my LOS

target List --> Short Up/Dn to select,
short Right to Store TGT
(Short Left = Cancel)
Long Down = Search same area for new targets
Short Down = stop lasing/reset TADS to FXD

Long Up to change ROE to Fire at will (Green text, WARNING no IFF)
(or Consent keybind for Yellow text)

Rockets (Coop)
--------------
Pilot WAS Left = Rockets
Short Left = Cycle to Rockets
Short Right = Salvo Quantity

Short Forward = Look for targets at my LOS
target List --> Short Up/Dn to select, short Right to Store TGT
(Short Left = Cancel)

Run in, follow cues and fire

CMWS
====
Short Up = Safe/Armed Toggle
Short Down = Auto/Bypass Toggle

 

My procedure to fire a Hellfire with George is

• ACQ=TADS, Sight=PHD (this will allow you to see where the CPG is pointing the TADS in your IHADS)
• Stable Hover (5-6 km from targets), 800-1200 ft AGL, facing target area
• George's TADS video repeated on Pilot's LH MPD, TSD on RH MPD
• Master Arm = ON

Commanding George
===============
• AI Helper Toggle [LCtrl+V]
• Cycle AI Mode to "Combat" using Short Left [A]
• Long Up [W] to toggle ROE to Fire at will (or Consent keybind for Yellow text)
• Left [A] to Cycle CPG's weapon to Missiles 
• Look at Target Area with IHADS
• Short Up [W] = to tell George to "Look for targets at my LOS"
(George should see targets and display a list in order of priority/threat)
• Short Up/Dn [W/S] to scroll through target list
• Short Right [D] to Store TGT (George doesn't "store targets", rather he tracks them)
(Check TADS video and confirm George has not locked a friendly)
• Check/adjust Pilot IHADS/HUD symbology that Hellfire parameters are "good" (large box, etc.)
• Pilot's Consent to fire button, to give George permission to fire (it's not bound by default - Joy Button 2)
(George should fire provided the helicopter is within constrains to fire the Hellfire)
• Once the target is destroyed, Down Long [S] will re-search the area for new/additional targets and repopulate the target list
(Note: Some times the CPG/Hellfire can switch to the wrong mode/type and you might need to switch back to LOBL using Short Right [D])

AH-64D George Consent to Fire, Screen_220625_140950.jpg

Here's a short video demonstrating the use of George to fire Hellfire missiles, using the AI Helper is at 4:45

 


Edited by Ramsay

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7 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

None of those change the AI helper color. No matter how many seconds I hold them down or single click or double click.  But maybe my finger gymnastic are not yet mastered.

GeorgeAI_Helper_cmd.jpg

Hmm, am I seeing this correct? You need 3 different buttons pressed at any given time to make George do anything? 

Anyway, from my experience. All I need to do is:

Activate George Menu - Whatever button you have it slaved to
Tell him where to look - Up
Scroll to correct target - Up/Down
Activate Target - Right
Consent to FIre Weapon (If state in yellow) - This I have mapped to my trigger+whatever button you use for creating secondary commands.

 

You do not want to select missiles youself. If you do the above before messing with any other settings you should have no problem.

 

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11 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

This is setup from pilot seat. Target selected, ARM on, weapon selected. But CPG will not fire, and I am unable to make AI George to do so. Thus IMHO this implementation  is lacking. Its confusing.

AH64D_CPG_not_firing_AGM114K.jpg

Hi.

According to your picture, the CPG should not be opening fire!:

A) Left hand Menu: there is no target selected. You have to press CPG Right ("D") to tell Geprge to select the marked target and designate it. A small box should appear, and expand if/when ready to fire.

B) Right hand menu: George is in "FREE FIRE", so he will fire as soon as he has the target in weapons constrain. He will not follow your comand. Press "W" long  to set weapons hold.

C) Left hand MPCD: the HellFire is not ready to shoot from your position. First , tell George to be "weapons hold", ( "W" long ), the menu should turn Amber. Now, tell him to designate a taget ( Right on target's menu), manouver to have the target well in front/constraints and then, press the trigger (if the cover is up, if not, first press the trigger.

When the CPG considers the target is OK and the Hello is stable, he will shoot.

Saludos.

Saca111

 

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3 hours ago, TZeer said:

Hmm, am I seeing this correct? You need 3 different buttons pressed at any given time to make George do anything? 

Anyway, from my experience. All I need to do is:

Activate George Menu - Whatever button you have it slaved to
Tell him where to look - Up
Scroll to correct target - Up/Down
Activate Target - Right
Consent to FIre Weapon (If state in yellow) - This I have mapped to my trigger+whatever button you use for creating secondary commands.

 

You do not want to select missiles youself. If you do the above before messing with any other settings you should have no problem.

 

Activate Target - RIGHT Is what is not working. When I do GeorgeAI Helper RIGHT it switches weapon option. Hellfire LOBL or LOAL. Up/Down to select target appears to work. LEFT switches weapon selection.  Those are not three buttons. Two are modifiers on my X56 and setup works fine. Problem is target activation, not target selection. I'll look at it after work.

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