grafspee Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I think Yak-52 is pretty common plane, i will try find some real aerobatics recordings, but i don't have yak-52 as module to compare. System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 29, 2022 ED Team Share Posted June 29, 2022 On 6/27/2022 at 8:34 PM, fapador said: No its not fine. Hate to break it for ya but in fact some Fm's in DCS aren't even ballpark... In fact, my suspicions have been confirmed through discussions with pilots, both high rank militants and civil aviation people... , not with some random enthusiasts in cyberspace saying otherwise... You make some big claims, but dont have any evidence to support it. Feelings just wont cut it here, we have very experienced pilots who are devs working on these aircraft flight models, you wont find a better simulation anywhere else. 5 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said: You make some big claims, but dont have any evidence to support it. Feelings just wont cut it here, we have very experienced pilots who are devs working on these aircraft flight models, you wont find a better simulation anywhere else. I acknowledge, but I assure you it ain't a feeling... It will also be a long subject conversation I am only willing to do via PM or email out of respect of ED. Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 29, 2022 ED Team Share Posted June 29, 2022 22 minutes ago, fapador said: I acknowledge, but I assure you it ain't a feeling... It will also be a long subject conversation I am only willing to do via PM or email out of respect of ED. please feel free to PM me with your evidence and track replay examples. Thank you. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) @DD_Fenrir In regards to comments about the T-6 not handling like a WWII fighter... Edited June 29, 2022 by fapador Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 17 hours ago, fapador said: @Ala13_ManOWar Yah, like DCS PFM's aren't actually tables based effects, tuned and baked accordingly... but perhaps you are too benighted to know that. Yeah, probably I'm the one, right . "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) On 6/29/2022 at 8:15 PM, Ala13_ManOWar said: Yeah, probably I'm the one, right . Thats right. For the benighted... Even a bonanza can hammerhead... better Check also 4:07 of video Edited July 21, 2022 by fapador Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RentedAndDented Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Logic isn't your strong suit much is it? The owner of ED is a warbird pilot who has a pretty good clue of how these things handle. Even then, it's an imperfect simulation as it must be, and you're laser focusing on one area you think is wrong. As has been said, they're all different airframes. You are simplifying the aerodynamics of it to a completely pointless degree. Maybe.....just maybe....the pilots in the videos you post are more skilled than you? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 11 hours ago, RentedAndDented said: Logic isn't your strong suit much is it? The owner of ED is a warbird pilot who has a pretty good clue of how these things handle. Even then, it's an imperfect simulation as it must be, and you're laser focusing on one area you think is wrong. As has been said, they're all different airframes. You are simplifying the aerodynamics of it to a completely pointless degree. Maybe.....just maybe....the pilots in the videos you post are more skilled than you? Let it be, that hammerhead in the video is pretty much the same you can do in a P-51 in DCS, but hammerheads have a trick, you must do it perfectly to the numbers or you end up in whatever but a hammerhead at all. You have to use a certain engine while climbing to the vertical, you have to step in the rudder (it depends on whether you do towards torque or against torque either) at a certain exact speed while still climbing, a second sooner or later and hammerhead is not happening. But he knows better, so let him live in his fap-adorian wet dreams of superiority, he's happy there, ignorance is bliss . 2 "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[AUSSIE]t0min8t0r Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 On 6/29/2022 at 4:36 AM, fapador said: @DD_Fenrir Extra 300 Rudder Area : 0.51 m^2 BF-109 K-4 Rudder Area : 0.57 m^2 P51D Rudder Area : 0.96 m^2 Spitfire MkIx Rudder (Pointy type) Area : 0.99 m^2 It actually doesn't take much... Any serious pilot, with experience should be able to confirm that WWII birds in DCS are notoriously weak in Yaw and there is NO way they handled or handle like that... I am not saying they should hammerhead like an extra 300 but being almost 4x times weaker in yaw authority is definitely not right... dude you cant compare a modern day acro plane to a ww2 fighter plane XD the weight difference's alone should throw you off from this debate 22 hours ago, fapador said: Thats right. For the benighted... Even a bonanza can hammerhead... better Check also 4:07 of video could just as easily pull this off in any warbird i think this is a pilot issue not a FM issue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, [AUSSIE]t0min8t0r said: dude you cant compare a modern day acro plane to a ww2 fighter plane XD the weight difference's alone should throw you off from this debate Look T-6 texan video.... Its simillar weight plane. 8 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said: . But he knows better, so let him live in his fap-adorian wet dreams of superiority, he's happy there, ignorance is bliss hahaha xD. And I will let you leave your DCS dream of realistic flight behavior simulator... Also P51 in DCS is the least wrong flight model in DCS IMAO and the only one I am able to somehow pull a hammerhead. Edited July 21, 2022 by fapador Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 20 hours ago, RentedAndDented said: The owner of ED is a warbird pilot who has a pretty good clue of how these things handle. Even then, it's an imperfect simulation as it must be, and you're laser focusing on one area you think is wrong. Means nothing. Polychop, for example tuned SA342 Gazelle with the help of REAL pilots, yet its flight model is broken as hell and everybody knows that. ED also didn't do anything to remove or refund the product and still at least 5 years without fix. The thing is I know this behavior is wrong, I don't think..... 9 minutes ago, [AUSSIE]t0min8t0r said: dude you cant compare a modern day acro plane to a ww2 fighter plane XD the weight difference's alone should throw you off from this debate Bonanza is not acro plane.. T-6 Texan wasn't designed as acrobatic plane either... Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Saying that a WWII warbird cant hammerhead is absurd and indicates complete topic ignorance. Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Who said they can't? They pretty much can as almost any aircraft I guess, but you have to practise it to master, like you have to do IRL as opposed to other games were you can do it straight out of the box. Sincerely that little detail alone only tells me about how accurate behaviour is in DCS, but whatever . "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) I remember someone who just bought DCS P-51D posted, that FM of P-51 is BS because he watched recording of ex p-51 ace doing aerobatics in p-51 and he could not replicate those aerobatics at first try. Some ppl expect to be Ace driver since first minute of the flight time. Truth is that to become ace you need a lot of training, how ppl can expect to perform those aerobatics perfectly after 5 min in the plane, this is very odd for me. I am perfection this game sucks Edited July 23, 2022 by grafspee 3 System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor18 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 On 7/22/2022 at 12:26 AM, fapador said: Look T-6 texan video.... Its simillar weight plane. hahaha xD. And I will let you leave your DCS dream of realistic flight behavior simulator... Also P51 in DCS is the least wrong flight model in DCS IMAO and the only one I am able to somehow pull a hammerhead. Can you describe, how do you make a hammerhead, and where does it go wrong for you and how? Sorry for being late for the party... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted July 26, 2022 ED Team Share Posted July 26, 2022 Stall turns are prohibited for the most of warbirds since they entered service. Was it a mistake of WWII test pilots? By the way, DCS Yak-52 having the same FM basics does it exactly as it does in RL. I have read a lot of reasons now why warbirds are not Extra, Yak-52 or even Texan, but I am probably missed the couple of really important factors. Anyway, the stall turns are possible in DCS taking in mind one of these factors. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughguy Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Not really sure whats happening in the stall turn video? https://sr-f.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Doughguy said: Not really sure whats happening in the stall turn video? An alleged impossible hammerhead happens . "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughguy Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 vor 36 Minuten schrieb Ala13_ManOWar: An alleged impossible hammerhead happens . Lol. Not what i meant tho. Video is cut in an unfavourable way... pony goes up fades to black *magic* cuts back pony goes down. https://sr-f.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 42 minutes ago, Doughguy said: Lol. Not what i meant tho. Video is cut in an unfavourable way... pony goes up fades to black *magic* cuts back pony goes down. Video doesn't fade out, maybe the camera could be in a better position, right, but you see the aircraft all the way up, turn with rudder, and down . In Dora video there's a better camera angle for sure. "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughguy Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 hm strange. rewatched it on my pc. some wonky things happening on my mobile... https://sr-f.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) @Yo-YoBoth fw's are currently impossible to hammerhead in dcs. Also 109 has unreasonable weak inflight rudder and is also surprisingly difficult for me to hammerhead. I don't know how it happens so cleanly in that video, as I always end in uncontrolled excessive yaw induced spin rolls when I kick the rudder, perhaps in video rudder is feeded progreessively and very slowly,.... a technique that doesn't apply in real life. Its also the only way that works in dcs to somehow perform hammerhead maneuvers, as kicking the rudder will upset the airplane so unrealistically much, that it will enter inverted spins. P47 nope ... Spitfire, cant hammerhead that either. DCS P-51 has the best flight model in my opinion and is the only one I can short of hammerhead. Sometimes I find it unintuitive . As for the Yak-52, yes it hammerheads easily but even with the updates it has a long way to come to be a good accurate flight model. There is also no apparent reason why yak-52 hammerheads that easily while its so hard to do it in the warbirds. Edited July 27, 2022 by fapador Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fapador Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) There is also this other thread from an other real pilot, having experience in heavy prop planes stating the exact same observations like me. 23 hours ago, Yo-Yo said: Stall turns are prohibited for the most of warbirds since they entered service. Was it a mistake of WWII test pilots? By the way, DCS Yak-52 having the same FM basics does it exactly as it does in RL. I have read a lot of reasons now why warbirds are not Extra, Yak-52 or even Texan, but I am probably missed the couple of really important factors. Anyway, the stall turns are possible in DCS taking in mind one of these factors. He also says that currently the only airplane that stall spins realistically in DCS is f-86 sabre... and also finds P-51 sub-par. Edited July 27, 2022 by fapador Obsessed with FM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobel Posted July 27, 2022 Author Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) vor 1 Stunde schrieb fapador: Both fw's are currently impossible to hammerhead in dcs. Also 109 has unreasonable weak inflight rudder and is also surprisingly difficult for me to hammerhead. I don't know how it happens so cleanly in that video, as I always end in uncontrolled excessive yaw induced spin rolls when I kick the rudder, perhaps in video rudder is feeded progreessively and very slowly,.... a technique that doesn't apply in real life. Its also the only way that works in dcs to somehow perform hammerhead maneuvers, as kicking the rudder will upset the airplane so unrealistically much, that it will enter inverted spins. P47 nope ... Spitfire, cant hammerhead that either. DCS P-51 has the best flight model in my opinion and is the only one I can short of hammerhead. Sometimes I find it unintuitive . As for the Yak-52, yes it hammerheads easily but even with the updates it has a long way to come to be a good accurate flight model. There is also no apparent reason why yak-52 hammerheads that easily while its so hard to do it in the warbirds. So especially with the p47 and spitfire a hammerhead feels very good in my opinion, with the k4 in the example it is much more difficult. Edited July 27, 2022 by Hobel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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