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Tanker speeds


RimanDk

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Hey, Reflected.

I've been stuck on Mission 2 for a while, since I had the "misfortune" of starting this campaign after the Viper got its updates.. and now it's quite a struggle to beat. I get very low on fuel during the first round, so I have been teaching myself to aar between rounds (still not there yet, but slowly..)

This has prompted me to do some digging into the Tomcat's FM/behaviour while the probe is out and, long story short, I got a lot of comments back from the community on why I was practicing refuelling at 350kts in the first place? I pointed at the instant action mission as well as the tankers in Zone 5 (well, at least the KC-135; I haven't checked the one further out from the engagements zone), which are set up that way.

I don't know why the tankers are set up to refuel at that speed, but it sounds like they should be going between 230 and 270 kts... not 350. It also sounded like this was a mistake for the instant action mission (Reference) and that it should be corrected.

Were the tankers set up at this speed and altitude based on some reference material you can share, or is it a bug?

Thanks in advance! 

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Thank you so much! That is much appreciated! 🙂 

Can you share what speed you will be lowering them to, so I can start practicing plugging at that speed?

As for making the whole hop without refuelling: is that feasible with the current state of DCS? This mission is without bags; even when I fly the route conservatively, I am down to 12.000'ish lbs when I get to the merge. Between the AI logic updates and the FM updates to the Viper specifically, that thing's flying circles around me. The first attempt at the mission ended in flames when I did not recover from a loop too close to the ground. The second fly-out also ended at the deck, but with a knock-it-off call. Fuel was below bingo.

In order to rtb with enough fuel, I reckon I would need to spend no more than 4000 lbs of fuel on each round, which would require some pretty quick kills. I'm sure I'm garbage at it, but I don't really see a way for an F-14A to pull that off against this Viper. I would welcome any and all tips, other than ditching straight to the deck 😄.

I'm loving the campaign and it's pushing me to learn and expand my horizons in order to overcome the challenges - which is exactly what a campaign should do - but I also reckon the Viper was a different (and much more docile) animal at the time this campaign was released?

Cheers!


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1 hour ago, RimanDk said:

I'm loving the campaign and it's pushing me to learn and expand my horizons in order to overcome the challenges - which is exactly what a campaign should do - but I also reckon the Viper was a different (and much more docile) animal at the time this campaign was released?

AI did not change much. Their SFM is very different to the PFM in Viper module which got its updates. But fear not the BFM changes to the AI are coming soon, also their FM remodeling is in the works.

For now just try to stunt some crazy angle on the bandit and let him dance with your Sidewinder.

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1 hour ago, draconus said:

AI did not change much. Their SFM is very different to the PFM in Viper module which got its updates. But fear not the BFM changes to the AI are coming soon, also their FM remodeling is in the works.

For now just try to stunt some crazy angle on the bandit and let him dance with your Sidewinder.

Thanks for the tip and the insights! I did have a prolonged fight that ended on the deck, where I wasted all 4 of my sidewinders on the same Viper. It just rated too fast. No amount of lead was enough to get them to turn with it.

 

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On 6/27/2022 at 9:45 PM, JupiterJoe said:

My I recommend checking out the Grim Reapers' Dogfight Technique videos:

 

I actually did not expect to learn much from that, I'll be honest, after having watched hundreds of hours of GS dogfighting... but I did! So, thank you very much for sharing! That was really helpful!

I am pleased to report that, after setting up a quick custom mission for myself and practicing the specific engagement I was struggling with, I have managed to pass the second mission with.. unexpected ease.

It's really weird to me to come here and share that I made quick work of both Vipers (comparative results to what Reflected shared in his update) when I struggled so much a month back... I'm not sure what's changed between then and now - whether the AI has become more approachable or I have just become a better aviator after mercilessly drilling AAR at 350 kts and 1 on 1 guns-only engagements with the Flanker in the instant mission - but I succeeded.

I feel a bit silly now, but I swear that that Viper was flying circles around me a month back.

Oh well, just thought I would share the good news 🙂 - at least, we got (will get) more accurate tankers in this campaign as a result of my toils! 😄 

Cheers!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/28/2022 at 2:08 AM, Reflected said:

If you do need to refuel, do it after you checked out with Blackjack. 

Should that be in the F10 menu? I just got into the campaign and on Event 1 when I needed to tank after the first 1v1 against Gator. I opened up the comms menu and there was no F10 option available. 

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2 hours ago, Nealius said:

Should that be in the F10 menu?

No, it's rather waypoint triggered, you fly back your route, around IP or DP (don't remember exactly) comms with Blackjack just start when your freqs are right. I don't know if it's possible between the two fights. If you can't continue - just call it off through F10 menu.

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Gotcha. First time I flew it I ran down to 4,000lbs after the first engagement. Formed up on Gator not knowing there would be a second (read the briefing twice but I guess I forgot). Went direct to the tanker and Gator ended up RTB to Nellis.

 

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