Now that the I-16 is out of Early Access - few issues with the way it flies.

[zaelu]

Taxi and Take off

I can taxi and take off from a runway with almost no problems if I respect rigorously a procedure that works. But it doesn't seem realistic or natural.
-the plane seems to be controllable by rudder pedals on  ground no matter the position of control column  - even fully aft - or the power setting. You can do turns like with a car at low RPM, throttle on idle and stick full aft.  This doesn't seem right. Was the plane actually had steerable tail wheel and if so was it that effective?
- the plane responds barely and with delay to differential braking also... which makes it difficult to anticipate when you use both methods.
- on takeoff the plane transitions from tail on the ground to tail up rather sharp and because is very unstable feels... awkward and very very dangerous.

- taking off from unprepared grass is a Russian Roulette for me.

In flight

Deploying flaps makes the plane pitch up by a significant margin and since there is no trim it gets hard to control as it requires more than half of stick to be pushed forward when on final and it feels like balancing on a ball. Doable but again... doesn't feel right. 
Also. Flaps don't induce much drag it seems and the pitch up might be incorrect as maybe it should pitch downwards when flaps are deployed depending on quantity of fuel left? Not sure if I am right but since the plane flies straight and level before deploying flaps and the flaps should add drag and move the center of pressure backwards... the plane should slow and pitch down... isn't it?

Landing

Very difficult still to control... like the test pilot from the I-16 video  but still feels very very dangerous because it feels depending on luck and almost irreproducible in same conditions same landing.

Generally the plane feels without mass I would say or without enough mass so without enough inertia.

What the others think of it? What the dev think of it?

PS Don't get me wrong.... it a nice little plane but I would like it to feel more real not like a "difficult game to beat by some tricks"
 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by zaelu
fixed some typos and some awkward wording. hope it makes more sense now.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Quote

Taxi and Take off

I can taxi and take off from a runway with almost no problems if I respect rigorously a procedure that works. But it doesn't seem realistic or natural.
-the plane seems to be controllable by rudder pedals on  ground no matter the position of control column  - even fully aft - or the power setting. You can do turns like with a car at low RPM, throttle on idle and stick full aft.  This doesn't seem right. Was the plane actually had steerable tail wheel and if so was it that effective?
- the plane responds barely and with delay to differential braking also... which makes it difficult to anticipate when you use both methods.
- on takeoff the plane transitions from tail on the ground to tail up rather sharp and because is very unstable feels... awkward and very very dangerous.

- taking off from unprepared grass is a Russian Roulette for me.

In flight

Deploying flaps makes the plane pitch up by a significant margin and since there is no trim because hard to control as it requires more than half of stick to be pushed forward when on final and it feels like balancing on a ball. Doable but again... doesn't feel right. 
Also. Flaps don't induce much drag it seems and the pitch up might be incorrect as maybe it should pitch downwards when flaps are deployed depending on quantity of fuel left? Not sure if I am right but since the plane flies straight and level before deploying flaps and the flaps should add drag and move the center of pressure backwards... th plane should slow and pitch down... isn't it?

Landing

Very difficult still to control... like the test pilot from the I-16 video produced by the IL-2 team but still feels very very dangerous because it feels depending on luck and almost irreproducible in same conditions same landing.

Generally the plane feels without mass I would say or without enough mass so without enough inertia.

What the others think of it? What the dev think of it?

PS Don't get me wrong.... it a nice little plane but I would like it to feel more real not like a "difficult game to beat by some tricks"

Yeah, procedures are usually what works in aviation, I don't know exactly what you see off about that. Every warbird here favours the use of relatively strict procedures whenever you want to master it to your best, without procedures you can fly but "things" happens easier than not.

- Control column has nothing to do with ground controllability, unless you slam it into the control panel and you get nose over. Control wise it's not exactly related, not in a way you could or should feel in front of a PC screen. Holding the control column back settles the tail for sure, but what do you expect to "feel" here? It's a simulation, do you feel any different any other warbird?. I can't recall if Ishak tail wheel has any controllability or is a free castering wheel, anyway tail is short, aircraft is relatively light, nothing special should happen because of that. Easier to control on the ground sure it is, I believe it should be from memoirs readings about the plane.

- Brakes are known to be ineffective on this aeroplane, drum brakes IIRC, hence not much can be done about that. It's historic.

- In the very video you posted at first there are a take off in which tail is seen lifting like a split second after slamming power on. What would you expect with a high powered nimble aircraft? Anyhow you can hold your stick back to prevent that from happening too early if you like.

- I found myself taking off from "grass runways", be it real runways or plain fields, is quite nice and the aircraft is comfortable there. I'd rather prefer grass take off rather than tarmac ones, indeed, though not many grass aerodromes out of Normandy/Channel maps.

- Yes, it does pitch up because of the lift, though indeed AoA is lower with flaps down. Real aircraft has no trim, but control column is like 2 metres long (I've had one in my hand, I've sat on a real i-16 yes, so same as any other warbird it's no big deal to hold the long control column a bit forward or backward, cero problem with that. The problem comes whenever we try to do that on a short stick sitting on top of a table, that's a problem but not a module problem. My warthog with a 25cm long extension is perfect and I have no problem with that. Hardware matters, yes. What you feel isn't exactly a pitch up momentum, IIRC from my tests in the past, AoA lowers as it should but since lift is higher you "feel" you have to hold harder on the stick. Problem related to not having a trim available, nothing else.

- To my taste landings in this aircraft were quite nice, better than other more highly powered warbirds in DCS IIRC, take off can be tricky due to high torque in a small aircraft, nothing unheard of, but landings were quite nice AFAIK, surprisingly nice and easy after those relatively tough take off.

- Yes, the aircraft is nimble, and modelling might be just different from other since every developer has it's own ways, but I'm fine with it being nimble, I didn't expect otherwise in a really small aircraft boasting 1000Hp in the nose.

 

Whatever it is, it might not be perfect as any simulation/pc game is to start with, but I don't see big problems with this module. It flies as expected, it performs quite well and nothing crazy but what you can expect from this aircraft and what they tell about it historically. You probably noticed the guy in the video you posted at first says it has no flaps and that's why it's hard to land . It does have flaps, either historically or in modern copies, no matter he uses or not for a reason. If that's what he thinks and he doesn't even know his aircraft for whatever the reason it is, well nice thoughts to listen to but I'd take those thoughts with a grain of salt just in case. He also compares it to Yak-52, which obviously has nothing to do with this aircraft, like nothing, zero, I don't know if you have ever stand next to a Yak-52 but it's a bus on wings, huge, but only 400Hp engine. It's used on aerobatics (where I saw it and had a chance to talk to the pilot) but it's so clearly in another league compared to proper aerobatic aircraft, it lacks power compared to those. But i-16 is a really nimble aircraft with a high power engine, definitely nothing to do with that. Why he thinks they're close or related? Who knows, but he also says whenever he tells that to test pilots they look at him like he was crazy, so…

Edited June 28, 2022 by Ala13_ManOWar

[zaelu]

Quote

- In the very video you posted at first there are a take off in which tail is seen lifting like a split second after slamming power on. What would you expect with a high powered nimble aircraft? Anyhow you can hold your stick back to prevent that from happening too early if you like.

Yeah, can you reproduce that with some margin of safety or reproducibility? 

Also if you look at many youtube videos with the I16 it seems is floating gracefully when taking off or landing even if a bit more than the pilot might want. But if you do that in the sim... at least for me... it's a ground loop or worse guarantee.

This is connected with the impression I have that the plane is not smooth on take off run.  I have looked in the Russian manual and at page 32 there is a picture with the controls on the rudder and tail wheel and it seems it had some control over the tail wheel through some springs. So... probably it should be all messy and mushy but imho is a bit aggressive but it could be some limitation of the simulation and also maybe it works better at 60fps (as most simulation work better at better FPS) and I have roughly 20...

The flaps deployment reaction in flight is just an open question. Some planes pitch up some pitch down... depends on many factors I suppose but I would have guessed it should pitch down and lose speed much faster. As I said... maybe I am wrong. I also have a Warthog with an almost 25cm extension I 3D printed myself so it's not big issue but feels unnatural a little.

I noticed that the guy said it has no flaps but unless you understood same thing in Russian then it could simply be a rough translation... Maybe he said he doesn't uses flaps. He speaks a lot compared with the translation.. I think the translation is just  a summary of what he says.

Edited June 28, 2022 by zaelu

[zaelu]

One thing I re-discovered today. If you search on youtube for "Uncontrollable turn" you will find an old movie with a I16 landing and after the plane rolls  a little bit after landing it does something the I16 in DCS does very often when landing... was quite funny to see.

[Dragon1-1]

If you don't know the trick to landing them, ground loops will get you in any warbird, or any taildragger at all, for that matter. That's just how it is. The I-16 shouldn't be any more prone to this than other warbirds (you want a ground-looping bastard, try the Spit), it's just a matter of proper technique.

[SFC Tako]

Fly MOAR