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Dora or Anton


twistking

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Hello there,
i'm thinking about buying my second german warbird (already have the 109), but can't decide between the Dora and Anton. Unfortunately there is not much recent material online in terms of reviews and they are obviously quite similar for the noninitiate...

Maybe you can give me some advice.
I'm not interested in competitive performance (Dora would probably win there), since i'm mostly interested in PvE and Anton should be good enough for my basic dogfighting needs.

I do care about fidelity of the simulation as well as visual fidelity. Is the Dora lacking in that regard or is she roughly on par with the newer models? I'm very impressed with the p-47 for example...

I also care about weird/gimmicky features (109's flare gun, Mustang's superb ground handling that allows for taxiway-ballet) and also quirks of the aircraft or shortcomings that make it more interesting (109's narrow undercarriage, Mustang's delicate engine)

How do both modules handle the problem of the thick front glass panel and it's refraction? I remember that missing refraction made for unrealisticly limited nose visibility (i'm aware of the limitation of raster render engines). Has there be decent workarounds implemented on both modules?

Most importantly i'm interested in yaw-stability. I don't use rudder pedals (i'm very comfortable with thustmaster fcs hotas paddle for rudder) and the lack of rudder trim on the german aircrafts is a little problem in that regard, since you can only cruise at that one specific power setting. So are the FW's more or less stable in yaw than the 109 and how do the A and D compare? (With stable i mean, how much rudder they need for cruising around. For maneuvring i have no trouble using my hotas paddle.

Thanks.


Edited by twistking
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There is so much you want to know, I suggest you to simply use the trial and try them out. 

The Dora is older so visually might not be as good as the Anton. But IIRC there was something mentioned about an overhaul in a newsletter? 

Gimmick? Hmm, maybe like the P-51 the abrupt departure. Or their clean cockpit. But there is not much to them... 

As for refraction, they have removed the lower part of the frame, thats about it. No refraction modeled. There have been some big topics about it, you should check them out if you want to know more about them. 

Yaw stability, I'd say pretty much like any warbird but without trim. Constant use of rudder required unless you cruise at the cruise setting. But overall, basically both like the K4. 

They are basically almost the same airframe with a different engine and 2 more/less cannons, thats it. The A8 also has a few more bombs available while the D9 has the addition of the R4M to choose from. Either trial them and see what fits you more, or go for whatever engine you prefer. 

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theyre quite alike. the d9 is the more modern fighter of the two hence bit faster. also has a gyroscopic gunsight that if you get accustomed to can give you quite an edge in a dogfight.

the flight handling is similar to the mustang albeit not as squirrely. the mustang literally bucks around if you push it to hard. not so with the 190s.

theyre not the best turners and up high where the mustang has the edge they should be used more in a  hit and run manner.

below 8k ft they whoop the mustangs ass. 

trim wise theyre about the same as the mustang. they roll/yaw.

the mustang can be trimmed better in that respect.

no refraction on the frontglass iirc. but visibility is poor in the 190s anyway. the models were adjusted tho to immitate the refraction some updates back iirc.

model quality wise the dora is not as good as the anton. but not really bad to be frank. the current textured are decent tho the damage textures arent as good as newer models.

there arent many texture versions of the dora sadly and no texture template either.


Edited by Doughguy
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6 hours ago, twistking said:

I'm not interested in competitive performance (Dora would probably win there), since i'm mostly interested in PvE and Anton should be good enough for my basic dogfighting needs.

Careful - with AI's simplified flight models and their tendency to do neverending loops, competitive performance might actually be more important than you think. Here Dora is the hotrod down low, while the Anton is somewhat underpowered brick, and with both loosing energy in vertical maneuvers rapidly, at least the former can make up for it with its power, while the latter cannot.

The only time I could see Anton shine was on Phil Style's SoW server vids, where Phil's teamwork with wingmen made the Anton effective.

As other mentioned, free trial is the only way to see which version suits you better.

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i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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The only strong side of Anton is firepower 4x 20mm cannons will shred everything, but someone will have hard time against AI, even AI mosquito pulls stunning aerobatics in fight.

In RL or on MP server when you are fighting against ppl, performance of your plane does not translate to win ratio. On MP server you can jump on unaware pilots, AI do not make such  mistakes 🙂


Edited by grafspee
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System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Yeah it's absolutely brutal fighting the Anton against AI. You may want to take that into account.

Anton has more ordnance options, and it's a newer module. People have said that they like the looks of the Anton compared to the Dora, but I find the texture work on the Anton very muddy and off-putting, at least in VR. The Dora cockpit textures seem refined and well done in comparison. As I understand it the geometry in the Anton is more accurate, and you can definitely see it features a more detailed cockpit in this regard.

As for handling I might disagree with some in here and say they do differ pretty significantly. The Anton seems much easier and forgiving, especially when it comes to accelerated stalls and roll damping. The Dora will drop wings on you quite a bit and feels more like a mustang in that regard, with the Anton much more benign (albeit underpowered). The Dora can actually pull really well in a dogfight with judicious use of flaps (that don't seem to take any damage from over speed) for some quick instantaneous turn at the cost of speed -- can help even things up a bit vs. the mustang. MW50 is also a huge boon, on top of the plane holding its own online against mustangs even without it on the old SoW server.

I'd say just trial them and see which one you like more, but expect to be on the receiving end with the Anton much more often, whether against AI or online.

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A-8, although a fighter, is probably more interesting in the ground pounder role (and F-8 version should come some day to the module, indeed), it's clearly underpowered as per any historical readings you could find, it's barely the same engine since A-5 but even more weight which isn't helping. You can understand why in Dora a high altitude performing engine was desperately needed, which I find interesting in DCS, any other simulator gives you that kind of deep understanding of what was going on and why.

Externally (and internally) Anton is way better and accurate than Dora, the time it has shows here but there was a textures update a time ago and Dora cockpit looks fine, though not as detailed. Anyhow that's cosmetics only and Dora might get an update sooner than later since it's reaching the 10 years old now.

FM wise, handling is not that different but you can definitely tell the shorter fuselage and stability difference, either on the ground or airborne, but not specially harder to fly in that regard anyway, once one known the other is mostly similar which makes sense since Dora (D-9) was basically an Anton (A-8) with an inline engine.

Both are great modules though Anton sadly is underrated by many pilots because that lack of power, but it's a very interesting aircraft, flies quite nicely, a historical match in Normandy, and all in all an interesting bird to fly and interesting in learning tactics and how to cope with some better opponents.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/29/2022 at 6:45 AM, grafspee said:

The only strong side of Anton is firepower 4x 20mm cannons will shred everything, but someone will have hard time against AI, even AI mosquito pulls stunning aerobatics in fight.

In RL or on MP server when you are fighting against ppl, performance of your plane does not translate to win ratio. On MP server you can jump on unaware pilots, AI do not make such  mistakes 🙂

 

If you're a good pilot and can hit targets, you can easily get kills with the Anton. It's quite good if flown properly. 4 20mm cannons are no joke and just one pass or guns on target will kill. I recommend you take the vertical every time.

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3 hours ago, Baltic Dude said:

If you're a good pilot and can hit targets, you can easily get kills with the Anton. It's quite good if flown properly. 4 20mm cannons are no joke and just one pass or guns on target will kill. I recommend you take the vertical every time.

It does not matter if you are good or not.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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My guess is you will probably get both eventually. But to start with just one since you already have the 109, I would have went with the A8 for more ground attack options. Getting the D9 after the Anton lets you experience the historical progression of the 2 planes. Either way, they are both great modules.

But I would be interested to know which one you went for, and how you like it?

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