reported ACLS Mode 1 - Issues Compensating for Burble

[Mikaa]

First off, I'm sure alot of this is WIP, and may already be reported internally, but I've noticed that when utilizing Mode 1, the Hornet consistently seems to be landing short. I tested both a no-wind scenario where the carrier is making wind at 27 kts, as well as with a carrier speed of 20 kts, with 10 kts of headwind along the final bearing (total ~30 kts down the angled deck). At first, I thought it was user error, or I disconnected something, but then I noticed that it only seems to deviate in-close when the burble comes into effect. It's looking like the ATC can't keep up, chops the power for the slight updraft, and then can't catch up in time to recover from the sink. Meanwhile the coupled A/P attempts to compensate by pitching for the glidepath.

With no-wind, it consistently hits the 1 wire, and over the limited testing I've done, any amount of wind beyond 1-2 kts results in landing short of the wires and subsequent hook-skip bolter. 

This wasn't apparent during Wags' showcase videos (burble may not have been implemented yet), and although not a perfect system, I don't think it should have this quite large deviation, especially towards striking the back of the deck. 

This issue aside, I'm really digging the ACLS system as well as all the other SC updates!

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that I also tried a slow repair, without success. 

F-18C ACLS Mode 1 Burble - 10 kts Wind Final Bearing.trk F-18C ACLS Mode 1 Burble - No Wind.trk F-18 ACLS Test.miz

Edited April 29, 2022 by Mikaa

[BIGNEWY]

I have reported this to the team for investigation. 

thank you

[sheepdog700]

I created a rather simple mission using ME and setup the super carrier for ACLS just as Wags describes in his YouTube video. Upon approach, everything links up just like it should. I got the tadpole, AP is coupled with the P/R indication on the HUD and the jet coast in for what starts to be a perfect landing....

 

About 10 to 15 second before touchdown, the jets drifts slightly left and ends up missing the wires and bolters and I can't figure out whhhhyyy. Then, when I go back around I can't get the P/R indication on the HUD, only the HDG indication as other players have reported previously. So it seems I get one chance using ACLS. I'm not sure why the jet drifts and bolters. I've landed fine using ACLS in a few MP servers I've been in.

 

I have the carrier set at 15kts with a 10kt wind blowing over the deck at the same angle as the carrier landing strip.

 

Anyone else experienced this?

 

[BIGNEWY]

Please include a short track replay example so we can take a look. 

thanks

[sheepdog700]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please include a short track replay example so we can take a look. 

thanks

Sorry for the newb question... but how do I do this?

[Ramsay]

38 minutes ago, sheepdog700 said:

Sorry for the newb question... but how do I do this?

Save a short track file after recreating the bug/problem

Then create a new post and drag & drop the .trk file to the "file box" at the bottom of the web page to "attach" the file to your post i.e. below where you type text.

Note: The max file size allowed by the Forum is 5 MB, above that you'll need to save the .trk using a file sharing site i.e. "Dropbox"; and then post/share the link so others can view it.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Ramsay

[Minsky]

1 hour ago, sheepdog700 said:

About 10 to 15 second before touchdown, the jets drifts slightly left and ends up missing the wires and bolters and I can't figure out whhhhyyy.

Then, when I go back around I can't get the P/R indication on the HUD, only the HDG indication as other players have reported previously. So it seems I get one chance using ACLS.

1. Options > Gameplay > uncheck the "Wake turbulence" and see if that helps. ACLS plus the "burble" effect equals bolter.

2. Waveoffs and bolters are not yet supported. You have to repeat the whole approach, starting from the 'inbound' call (or restart the mission).

[sheepdog700]

1 hour ago, Minsky said:

1. Options > Gameplay > uncheck the "Wake turbulence" and see if that helps. ACLS plus the "burble" effect equals bolter.

2. Waveoffs and bolters are not yet supported. You have to repeat the whole approach, starting from the 'inbound' call (or restart the mission).

does this mean ACLS does not work under "realistic" conditions for carrier landings in DCS? 

[Minsky]

46 minutes ago, sheepdog700 said:

does this mean ACLS does not work under "realistic" conditions for carrier landings in DCS? 

They're still tweaking the burble effect; what we currently have is the first iteration.

[CH4Pz]

16 hours ago, sheepdog700 said:

I created a rather simple mission using ME and setup the super carrier for ACLS just as Wags describes in his YouTube video. Upon approach, everything links up just like it should. I got the tadpole, AP is coupled with the P/R indication on the HUD and the jet coast in for what starts to be a perfect landing....

 

About 10 to 15 second before touchdown, the jets drifts slightly left and ends up missing the wires and bolters and I can't figure out whhhhyyy. Then, when I go back around I can't get the P/R indication on the HUD, only the HDG indication as other players have reported previously. So it seems I get one chance using ACLS. I'm not sure why the jet drifts and bolters. I've landed fine using ACLS in a few MP servers I've been in.

 

I have the carrier set at 15kts with a 10kt wind blowing over the deck at the same angle as the carrier landing strip.

 

Anyone else experienced this?

 

Disable wake turbulance in the settings

[shon]

I confirm that the issue continues to reproduce only when turbulence is activated.

ED, can you please confirm that you are dealing with this bug? I mention it because in the title of the post I read "need track replay", and I don't know if you are still waiting for someone to upload a track for you to start looking at the matter...

If so, I have no problem uploading one, but from the answers of the other users it seems that everyone already knows about this bug... Thanks.

[norman99]

Any update on the overly exaggerated burble/ground effect combined with ACLS Mode 1 causing constant bolters?

@BIGNEWY, as per your response here, this was reported a year ago.

This has been an issue since ACLS release, and makes Mode 1 almost completely unusable. I understand we can downgrade to Mode1A/2, or turn off the burble effect via the wake turbulence option, but this is a temporary workaround, not a long term solution.

Edited April 19, 2023 by norman99

[CH4Pz]

5 hours ago, norman99 said:

Any update on the overly exaggerated burble/ground effect combined with ACLS Mode 1 causing constant bolters?

@BIGNEWY, as per your response here, this was reported a year ago.

This has been an issue since ACLS release, and makes Mode 1 almost completely unusable. I understand we can downgrade to Mode1A/2, or turn off the burble effect via the wake turbulence option, but this is a temporary workaround, not a long term solution.

 

Im not sure disabling wake turbulance disables the burble anymore!! doesnt seem to on my end. Been using it a bit lately (now it actually engages) an i have had some luck throttling on just before touch down, just a little blip, once your passing over the bow, but is kinda sketchy, too much though and u can bolt. You also wanna be under 33000 pounds too (use chklist)

[BIGNEWY]

6 hours ago, norman99 said:

as per your response here, this was reported a year ago.

thanks I will merge 

We should see improvement once all the FM and ACS tweaks are in. 

[mason.zh]

I'm not sure if this is related to this post:

I've never turned on the wake turbulence before, so I figure I would give it a try since I just bought a new F18 campaign, I was surprised by the sudden pitch-up behavior during my first carrier landing with wake turbulence. It almost felt like I pressed the paddle and yank the stick. 

So I did a few tests, and this behavior seems only would appear if I enable the wake turbulence.

F18_Normal_Pitch_Without_WakeTurbulence.trk F18_WakeTurbulence_Nose_Up.trk

[markom]

Search the forum for "burble effect". There are multiple threads about this.

[GremlinIV]

Yeah, advise turn wake turb off again - it is claimed in other threads WIP, as Burble affect mechanics are not too good..

But yeah see other threads too for confirmation.

[CH4Pz]

23 hours ago, mason.zh said:

I'm not sure if this is related to this post:

I've never turned on the wake turbulence before, so I figure I would give it a try since I just bought a new F18 campaign, I was surprised by the sudden pitch-up behavior during my first carrier landing with wake turbulence. It almost felt like I pressed the paddle and yank the stick. 

So I did a few tests, and this behavior seems only would appear if I enable the wake turbulence.

F18_Normal_Pitch_Without_WakeTurbulence.trk 3.12 MB · 4 downloads F18_WakeTurbulence_Nose_Up.trk 3.09 MB · 5 downloads

Yeh, i didnt do thorough testing, i never liked the implementation of burble, so i turned wake turbulance off at the start, but then noticed the burble had come back with one of the latest updates (even though i had it off), hence why i didnt think wake turbulance cancelled it anymore. my bad, probably jumped the gun with that comment  

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged, we do still have a report open for tweaking this. 

thanks