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Mirage F1 Force Feedback joysticks


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1 hour ago, Phantom_Mark said:

I hope all developers ignore this way of thinking, that way when someone in the hardware industry wakes up and smells the roses all the aircraft will immediately be compatible with our archaic, and new gen hardware

 

I actually used a MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 for a couple of hours, on March 2000, as they were being demonstrated at FIDAE 2000 (https://www.fgmedia.cl/fidae-2000/) . At the time I used a Thrustmaster FCS Pro, along with a TM WCS Mk2, and was not really impressed with the Miscrosoft offering .. I tested it with MS Combat Flight Simulator and honestly it seemed like a gimmick to me, the feeling of my FCS Pro was far superior.

It seems I was not the only one to think that way, as the product never really catched on. A couple of years later I upgraded to a Thrustmaster Cougar and didn't even consider purchasing a FFB unit, in spite of the Cougar being considerably more expensive.

 

 

 

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If you are judging the hardware based on MS Combat Flight Sim there is your problem Rudel 😄   That game was pretty junky even back then.

Modern implementation is excellent when it is done correctly, even if the stick has its limitations

The urge to add cheesy canned fx can be high, however  when it is done correctly it adds a ton of fidelity to the flight model, the F14 in particular is nice, you can ride the edge of AoA and buffet purely on feel through your hands, the MB339 mod was also a stand out for implementation, that one had the flight stick fairly limp at low speed with little resistance, as your speed went up and airflow increased over the surfaces the stick got progressively more weighty, again making you feel massively more in control of the aircraft and in touch with the flight model..

MSCFS had the most cheesy and crude canned crap implementation ever, no surprises.

Don't even get me started on the benefit of flying the choppers or the aircraft with offset FFB trim ........feels perfect.


Edited by Phantom_Mark
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@Rudel_chw Yeah, the "effects" are somewhat of a gimmick. But none of those are implemented in any DCS module.

I agree with @Phantom_MarkCorrectly done, use of the "force part" is just invaluable. I have five second hand MS FFB2s. Flying helicopters in DCS now is "impossible" due to how trimming works like the real thing.

In Warbirds and the C-101 the stick is completely limp until you get airflow over the surfaces, and I'm really curious on how the implementation in the release MB-339 will be. In the free module some "gimmick effects" were a little overdone if you ask me, especially on ground. 

And like I wrote elsewhere, in the F1, it's limp until you get the hydraulics running (A-10C, have this somewhat as well), and we are supposed to get real effects later that will make you feel how much stick you can pull. In the MiG-21 pulling four Gs should need the double force of two Gs. I tried to test this with a cheap China Newton meter. But I got various results. 😊 

Oh, and trimming moves the stick accordingly in modules, so trimming is easy. You pull/push stick so you're level, and then trim until you don't need to. Except the C-101, as that is not how it works in the real thing. 😊 

Cheers! 

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1 hour ago, Phantom_Mark said:

If you are judging the hardware based on MS Combat Flight Sim there is your problem Rudel 😄 


Well, that’s the problem with demo setups, you don't get to use your own software .. at the time I flew Ef2000, dont even know if it supported FFB or not .. I used that sim because at the time it was one of the first flight sim to support my 3dfx graphics card.

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For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra

For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600X - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia GTX1070ti - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar - Oculus Rift CV1

Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB

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1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:


Well, that’s the problem with demo setups, you don't get to use your own software .. at the time I flew Ef2000, dont even know if it supported FFB or not .. I used that sim because at the time it was one of the first flight sim to support my 3dfx graphics card.

EF2000 did not support FFB, since FFB was not really "a thing" yet. 😊 Got my first wheel in 98 or so. Cannot remember the brand. Too bad I threw it away. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

But, like you said. It natively supported 3DFx, AND VR. I used the VR helmet I'm wearing in my avatar with it. 😊 

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Don't sweat it to much guys. FFB is on it's way back and it will not be the toy-grade from 10-20 years ago:

9 NM torque is really remarkable, i love my VPforce Rhino base so much. There are also rumors that WinWing will develop a FFB base... 


Edited by RealDCSpilot
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i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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9 NM torque is really remarkable, i love my VPforce Rhino base so much. There are also rumors that WinWing will develop a FFB base... 

You have one already ??? I only became aware of that stick last night after seemingly years of watching the various ffb homebrew threads, it is firmly on my buy list if possible, and the price is not stupendous !

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Yeah, i got the first unit a couple months ago. Check the thread i linked for the VPforce discord invite, there is a lot of information available and you can talk to more owners of the prebuilt base and DIY kits.

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i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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  • 1 year later...

I just wanted to add here for anyone else in the market, I now have a Rhino (A few months back now), it is everything and more than I ever wanted from a FFB stick, the community have added a ton of FFB features as well, it really makes the whole thing come alive subtly in the background - which is exactly what it was intended to do.

 


Edited by Phantom_Mark
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A lack of communication about that intent from WinWing is exactly why I bought the Rhino, it is honestly awesome, I use a WinWing F16EXE grip on the Rhino ironically. Plugs straight into the Rhino with full native support, I could also plug straight in my Thrustmaster grip or my Virpil as wanted, all with native support no messing.

 

 

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On 10/5/2023 at 8:20 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Winwing is supposedly working on an FFB stick base. I might go for that someday. For now, despite a few forays into helos and warbirds, I'm still a jet jock at heart. 🙂

FFB will do you good in jets too. Why would you think otherwise? 😉
Trimming, stalls (in trainers), stick shaker etc. I don't care one bit about "shooting effects" etc. if they are not present in the real thing.

Cheers!
 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/7/2023 at 12:45 PM, MAXsenna said:

FFB will do you good in jets too. Why would you think otherwise? 😉
Trimming, stalls (in trainers), stick shaker etc. I don't care one bit about "shooting effects" etc. if they are not present in the real thing.

Cheers!
 

Jupp, just having the sick move as you trim(like in the F1, F14 and F-5) is awesome.

Really looking forward to the FFB effects in the F-4

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Jupp, just having the sick move as you trim(like in the F1, F14 and F-5) is awesome.
Really looking forward to the FFB effects in the F-4
The F-5 has a really cool feature. If you enable it, it displaces the centre of the stick forward, so the complete deflection is more like the real thing. Less travel forward compared to backwards.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

The F-5 has a really cool feature. If you enable it, it displaces the centre of the stick forward, so the complete deflection is more like the real thing. Less travel forward compared to backwards. emoji4.png

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Have it activated. 

I have the brunner which have less force than the Rihno. But for stuff like trim, stall(in warbirds) and helicopters trim it's the same.

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