NTTR Training Campaign Issues

[FMBluecher]

First of all, might I say that it is very cool that you have made this mini-campaign as a preview for your paid one? I really like the idea, and Mission 1 was good fun.

However, there are two issues I've noted so far:

1) The tanker is a KC-135, not a KC-135MPRS, which is the only KC-135 variant in-game that Tomcats can actually refuel from. Due to a (pretty awesome) supersonic low-speed chase of one of the bandit bombers, I was super low on fuel and rather distressed to find out that I couldn't actually refuel from the tanker! This appears to be the same in Mission 2 as well, although I haven't flown it yet so I can't confirm.

2) I was told by Overlord that I had completed the mission before I even checked in on station--might be worth checking the trigger situation to see what's happening there.

[Sandman Simulations]

11 hours ago, FMBluecher said:

First of all, might I say that it is very cool that you have made this mini-campaign as a preview for your paid one? I really like the idea, and Mission 1 was good fun.

However, there are two issues I've noted so far:

1) The tanker is a KC-135, not a KC-135MPRS, which is the only KC-135 variant in-game that Tomcats can actually refuel from. Due to a (pretty awesome) supersonic low-speed chase of one of the bandit bombers, I was super low on fuel and rather distressed to find out that I couldn't actually refuel from the tanker! This appears to be the same in Mission 2 as well, although I haven't flown it yet so I can't confirm.

2) I was told by Overlord that I had completed the mission before I even checked in on station--might be worth checking the trigger situation to see what's happening there.

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback

This campaign is not actually preview as it lacks many advansed trigger functions and is pretty much simplified version. Also mycapability for camapaign maintainance is not on same level as for paid one but I will try to fix all found problems as soon as possible. 

Anyway nice to hear you have downloaded it and please report if you find more problems. I will check the tanker issue and look what could cause too early "mission comleted" message in few days. 

 

[FMBluecher]

All makes sense! I'm hoping to finish the training in the next few days, and I'll let you know my feedback once I'm done. (And then I'll start the paid campaign! Looking forward to it!)

BTW the tanker issue is present in all the missions, but because it's not a DLC campaign I can edit the files myself; it was pretty trivial to add KC-135MPRS's to all the missions so it's not a showstopper or anything.

[Sandman Simulations]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:37 PM, FMBluecher said:

2) I was told by Overlord that I had completed the mission before I even checked in on station--might be worth checking the trigger situation to see what's happening there.

Hi,

I'm trying to find reason for that. Can you confirm it was mission 1 where that too early message was? If it was, did that message say  "all bombers were dead" or "bombers reached target area"? Or is it possible it was Overlord giving relief for Pontiac flight (F/A-18 flight leaving training area few minutes before you will arrive)?

[FMBluecher]

2 hours ago, Sandman Simulations said:

Hi,

I'm trying to find reason for that. Can you confirm it was mission 1 where that too early message was? If it was, did that message say  "all bombers were dead" or "bombers reached target area"? Or is it possible it was Overlord giving relief for Pontiac flight (F/A-18 flight leaving training area few minutes before you will arrive)?

It was definitely Mission 1. I think it said "all bombers were dead" but I couldn't swear to that, so it's possible (especially if no one else is reporting this issue) that it was just relieving Pontiac.

I just finished the campaign! Good stuff, and I bought the paid DLC, which I'll start next.

I thought I'd condense all my feedback (including that mentioned above) into one post here:

1) KC-135 needs to be converted to KC-135MPRS in every mission. It might be worth checking if the radios are set up correctly for it as well, as in Mission 3 it seemed as though the KC-135 was on the wrong frequency (although this may have been a function of my own edits to turn the KC-135 into an MPRS rather than an underlying issue with the campaign itself).

2) In Mission 3, I successfully escorted the F/A-18 through the range, and then the Hornet started a sudden climb towards the tanker. I assumed that this meant that the mission was complete, even though I received no message to this effect, especially since some of the F-16s that had been pursuing us turned around. Therefore, I started climbing towards the tanker too, as I was very low on fuel (about 2600 lbs remaining). Right as I was about to call pre-contact, one of the F-16s (Falcon 3-1) showed up, blew up the tanker, and killed me. Seems to me that the mission should be considered complete if the Hornet got far enough away to tank, and the tanker should definitely be made immortal so that even if it gets called "killed" by Overlord, the player isn't left in a spot where they don't have enough fuel to land.

3) Also, because I just quit the mission at this point (since I was basically running on fumes and the training F-16 blew up the tanker for real!), it got counted as a fail, and oddly bumped me back to Mission 2 for failing Mission 3. That seemed very odd; even if you fail, at worst it should just send you to replay Mission 3.

4) No bugs with Mission 4, although it did seem a bit surprising that the exercise was "knocked off" just because Pontiac reached the target. There were a couple of Eagles still about that could have still messed with the retreating strikers, but I do get why it was done this way.

Anyway, the above aside, I really enjoyed this, and thanks again for making the training campaign! Fun little thing to do before I get stuck into the "real" thing!

[Sandman Simulations]

4 hours ago, FMBluecher said:

It was definitely Mission 1. I think it said "all bombers were dead" but I couldn't swear to that, so it's possible (especially if no one else is reporting this issue) that it was just relieving Pontiac.

I just finished the campaign! Good stuff, and I bought the paid DLC, which I'll start next.

I thought I'd condense all my feedback (including that mentioned above) into one post here:

1) KC-135 needs to be converted to KC-135MPRS in every mission. It might be worth checking if the radios are set up correctly for it as well, as in Mission 3 it seemed as though the KC-135 was on the wrong frequency (although this may have been a function of my own edits to turn the KC-135 into an MPRS rather than an underlying issue with the campaign itself).

2) In Mission 3, I successfully escorted the F/A-18 through the range, and then the Hornet started a sudden climb towards the tanker. I assumed that this meant that the mission was complete, even though I received no message to this effect, especially since some of the F-16s that had been pursuing us turned around. Therefore, I started climbing towards the tanker too, as I was very low on fuel (about 2600 lbs remaining). Right as I was about to call pre-contact, one of the F-16s (Falcon 3-1) showed up, blew up the tanker, and killed me. Seems to me that the mission should be considered complete if the Hornet got far enough away to tank, and the tanker should definitely be made immortal so that even if it gets called "killed" by Overlord, the player isn't left in a spot where they don't have enough fuel to land.

3) Also, because I just quit the mission at this point (since I was basically running on fumes and the training F-16 blew up the tanker for real!), it got counted as a fail, and oddly bumped me back to Mission 2 for failing Mission 3. That seemed very odd; even if you fail, at worst it should just send you to replay Mission 3.

4) No bugs with Mission 4, although it did seem a bit surprising that the exercise was "knocked off" just because Pontiac reached the target. There were a couple of Eagles still about that could have still messed with the retreating strikers, but I do get why it was done this way.

Anyway, the above aside, I really enjoyed this, and thanks again for making the training campaign! Fun little thing to do before I get stuck into the "real" thing!

Hi again,

Thank you for your feedback. 

Version 1.05 now updated to DCS user files Sandstrom Training Camp mini campaign 1.05 by Sandman Simulations (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

1) You are right about tankers. Wrong type. Now changed to right ones. Also frequencies now matching briefing.

2) As tanker is neutral it is invisible for enemy fighters so they should not be able to attack it. I think only way is accidentally when trying to shoot player or someone else on your team. Now tanker is also immortal to make sure no one kills it. Hornet should climb about the time when it is in friendly zone. Overlord should report it for all fighters and enemy should then turn away. I changed trigger area where Hornet is counted as reaching friendly zone bit earlier to avoid enemy to attack you if you somehow manage to get to the tanker about same time.

3) There was still some fixing with mission scoring. DCS campaign engine throws you to earlier mission if you get less than 50 points. I thought I fixed it earlier but seems it was still there. Now you should get at least 50 points even if you crash and die. To get to next mission you just need to get back to Nellis in one piece. No matter if you "die" in training or who wins the exercise.

4) In mission 4 USAF has mission to protect the air base so they loose the fight if strike flight gets over the target even if they would manage to destroy Hornets after home base is destroyed. That's why you win even if there is still some enemies alive. 

[FMBluecher]

13 minutes ago, Sandman Simulations said:

3) There was still some fixing with mission scoring. DCS campaign engine throws you to earlier mission if you get less than 50 points. I thought I fixed it earlier but seems it was still there. Now you should get at least 50 points even if you crash and die. To get to next mission you just need to get back to Nellis in one piece. No matter if you "die" in training or who wins the exercise.

Ah, that makes sense!

Thanks for taking my feedback into account, and, again, this whole mini-campaign was awesome and I'm very glad you made it!