head tracking problem , any got a solution ?

[swaps]

Hi all,

                  I use a 32" TV as my monitor this causes problems with head tracking. I use headtrackNOIR, if I put the cam on top of monitor its fine looking left to right and up and  down loses track if I go too far.  the main problem is looking down to the sides ( im on the F-16) so lots of switches on left and right down low. I also get similar problems if the cam is placed low at the bottom of the monitor. I can left it up 4" but after that its getting in the way of the screen. I'm thinking of trying IR head clip to see if that works better but I really think I will just have the same problems. I am Using the PS3 web cam and have tried other HD web cams and the results are the same. if anything the PS3 cam is a little better. Any suggestions ?

 

Thanks Alan

[Sacarino111]

47 minutes ago, swaps said:

Hi all,

                  I use a 32" TV as my monitor this causes problems with head tracking. I use headtrackNOIR, if I put the cam on top of monitor its fine looking left to right and up and  down loses track if I go too far.  the main problem is looking down to the sides ( im on the F-16) so lots of switches on left and right down low. I also get similar problems if the cam is placed low at the bottom of the monitor. I can left it up 4" but after that its getting in the way of the screen. I'm thinking of trying IR head clip to see if that works better but I really think I will just have the same problems. I am Using the PS3 web cam and have tried other HD web cams and the results are the same. if anything the PS3 cam is a little better. Any suggestions ?

 

Thanks Alan

Hi.

I used to have the same problem with my TrackIR 4, and I had to tweak the curves to adjust for it. Finaly, the TrackIr failed and had to buy a new one, V5 this time, and problem gone. So, if posible, buy a new one and place the camera on top of the frame, but up side down, so you can gain some 5 cms, and in the software invert the camera.

Saludos.

Saca111

[swaps]

40 minutes ago, Sacarino111 said:

Hi.

I used to have the same problem with my TrackIR 4, and I had to tweak the curves to adjust for it. Finaly, the TrackIr failed and had to buy a new one, V5 this time, and problem gone. So, if posible, buy a new one and place the camera on top of the frame, but up side down, so you can gain some 5 cms, and in the software invert the camera.

Saludos.

Saca111

I will give that a try

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, swaps said:

I'm thinking of trying IR head clip to see if that works better but I really think I will just have the same problems.

 

This means you are trying to track your face at the moment?  .. Because I use a IR head clip, with a 34" monitor, and I don't experience your issues, and I also use FacetrackNoIR as software, with a PS3 modified webcam .. for example here is a recent video of mine, a cold start where I have to look at every corner of the cockpit, where you can see how it tracks:

 

 

 

[swaps]

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

This means you are trying to track your face at the moment?  .. Because I use a IR head clip, with a 34" monitor, and I don't experience your issues, and I also use FacetrackNoIR as software, with a PS3 modified webcam .. for example here is a recent video of mine, a cold start where I have to look at every corner of the cockpit, where you can see how it tracks:

 

yes,

      when I get to extreme's of down and look back or very high I get problems, jumpy and stuttering , hard to keep a focus as it moves about when head is still. Do you have the cam on top of monitor ? I will send off for the bits next week and build myself  and IR headset.

Thanks Alan

 

2 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

 

[TrichomeCharlie]

I use Grass Monkeys setup and I found that putting the ps3 camera at the bottom of my screen vs the top helped immensely. If you haven't tried that I may suggest to give that a go. I use a 43 inch TV.

Edited July 11, 2022 by TrichomeCharlie

[Hiob]

I think it is more a matter of setting the curves right, than of the device. I had similar issues with a trackclip and TrackIR V in beginning. But now, no issues at all. My camera is sittting on top of a 48" screen and the clip is passive. From my experience, the best detection range in all directions is achieved, when the camera and the tracking device (active or passive clip) are as much aligned as possible in the neutral position.

TrackIR has a setting where you can monitor, what the camera sees . That is very helpful when figuring out, where it loses track. IIRC Facetracknoir has should have a similar option.

[KAKTYC_11]

Look here

[swaps]

5 hours ago, TrichomeCharlie said:

I use Grass Monkeys setup and I found that putting the ps3 camera at the bottom of my screen vs the top helped immensely. If you haven't tried that I may suggest to give that a go. I use a 43 inch TV.

 

I have it at the bottom, it was much worse when using it from the top. I do have it mounted about 4" hight though. I will try lowering and tilted back like in your diagram.

 

Thanks  Alan

Edited July 11, 2022 by swaps

[swaps]

I dont use trackIR, I use facetracknoIR and have tried AItrack and open track. I found the last 2 much worse at tracking but that could be down to not using an IR source.

 

Thanks

[Rudel_chw]

54 minutes ago, swaps said:

that could be down to not using an IR source.

 

You owe it to yourself to move onto an IR clip, it is so much more precise

 

[Zeagle]

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I highly recommend the Tobii Eye Tracker. You don't hear much about it here.

 I used the TIR5 for years until mine died. The Tobii does head tracking and eye tracking.  Plus , with my progressive lenses, I can now see all my instruments clearly.

I use it with an Asus 32in TUF Gaming monitor

 

[Rudel_chw]

5 minutes ago, Zeagle said:

I highly recommend the Tobii Eye Tracker. You don't hear much about it here.

 

maybe because of its high cost, around US$ 250, and also I understand that it only has 3 degrees of freedom, isnt it?

[Hiob]

36 minutes ago, Zeagle said:

Not intending to hijack the thread, but I highly recommend the Tobii Eye Tracker. You don't hear much about it here.

 I used the TIR5 for years until mine died. The Tobii does head tracking and eye tracking.  Plus , with my progressive lenses, I can now see all my instruments clearly.

I use it with an Asus 32in TUF Gaming monitor

 

Well I tested it against TrackIR and found it sub par. The whole setup is a mess, the latency is bad….. long story short. It collects dust in the „failed experiments“ bin. Just my personal opinion of course. Anybody os free to make his own.

Back to topic. When you put the camera down, you will have better coverage when looking down, but you will loose it when looking up (which is very important in dog fighting). You can’t have it both ways. That’s the reason, I claimed that it is best set up aligned with the clip when your head is in the „neutral“ position. That will give you the best range of motion in any direction. When you don’t reach a certain corner of your cockpit, emphasize the curve for the movement in that direction instead of moving the camera.

[CBStu]

I agree w/ Hiob. With either reflector there is a limit to how far your head can move and the camera can still see it. I use the plane sheet metal reflector because it got rid of a wire that used to run from my head to the PC. I don't notice any difference in performance. Setting up, my first step is to get the camera aimed correctly. See the 3 dots in the top right chart?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2nxDWCs][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52210398962_d8bc67614d_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2nxDWCs]TIR pitch[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/]craig stuard[/url], on Flickr

Those are your camera alignment indicators. In my pic they are a little off. They should be centered on the cross hair. I may need to aim the camera slightly or I may need to move my chair slightly. Once camera is set than you need to look at the curves. That is the chart in the bottom left of my pic. You have to click the small 'Axis' box so you adjust pitch, roll, yaw one at a time. First of all, I like a dead zone in left/right and up/down. I set mine for about 7 degrees of head movement in each direction before the view on the screen moves. I get that using the green up/down arrows on that chart. Anything that is below the white horizontal line just a tiny bit up from the bottom does not do anything. You can see that both curves come above the white line at about 7degrees. Move the curves up, adjust them, and then move them back down. In my case I move them down like the one in the pic. Then you can play w/ the angle of the curve. For instance I set pitch so I can look down and back a little to see those switches on the side panels. You can see what the effect is on the 4 charts to the right just below the one w/ the 3 green dots. The top three have a head diagram that moves and the bottom is a chart reading degrees. I go to about 100deg down and 100deg up. In yaw I set it so I can see about 185deg left and right. This is a little more than straight back (so I can see a Mig coming on my tail) but my head is turned only 60-70deg so I can still see the monitor. When I first got TIR, I flew the Quick Action called Free Flight. It starts you in the air flying at about 350k. I keep hitting pause, go to the TIR screen, make a change, and go back to fly to see the effect. TIR is not VR but I think it is very, very good. Good luck

 

[Zeagle]

On 7/11/2022 at 2:40 PM, Rudel_chw said:

 

maybe because of its high cost, around US$ 250, and also I understand that it only has 3 degrees of freedom, isnt it?

I have used all the TrackIR's for many years.  My tobii is better than TIR in my opinion. I thought it was 6dof. It captures head movement as well as rotations and tilt. It also does eye tracking. I have found with the sensitivity settings at about 50% or about 2.5 on the sliders, I have a really natural-feeling movement with no lag. I think I have much better range of motion than with TIR. Plus I don't have to have anything on my head. 

Edit. If I run the sliders all the way up on the settings in Tobii Game Hub, then I get a really jittery experience. Too low and it's too slow for flying.  I make sure to have head tracking, eye tracking, and head movement enabled. Maybe I should do a video.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Zeagle

[Jakes]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:39 PM, swaps said:

Hi all,

                  I use a 32" TV as my monitor this causes problems with head tracking. I use headtrackNOIR, if I put the cam on top of monitor its fine looking left to right and up and  down loses track if I go too far.  the main problem is looking down to the sides ( im on the F-16) so lots of switches on left and right down low. I also get similar problems if the cam is placed low at the bottom of the monitor. I can left it up 4" but after that its getting in the way of the screen. I'm thinking of trying IR head clip to see if that works better but I really think I will just have the same problems. I am Using the PS3 web cam and have tried other HD web cams and the results are the same. if anything the PS3 cam is a little better. Any suggestions ?

 

Thanks Alan

Hi @swaps

Below are links to 2 videos that helped with my facetrackNOIR issues. These were done by Juice over at the Air Warfare Group.

In the one there is a link to an update for the program as well as the profile that Juice uses and the second talks about adding curves in DCS to help further. (There are a couple more videos in the playlist I shared these from but these 2 consolidate all of the info as far as I can remember)

I followed these and it works like a dream most of the time for me. I am also running a 32inch monitor which I have on a raised mount, so the center of the screen is eye level and the camera mounted underneath looking upwards at a bit of an angle.

I am using a less than brilliant Logitech C310 HD Webcam and it gets the job done.
 

 

Hope these help you as much as they helped me!

Edited July 24, 2022 by Jakes
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[e32lover]

I had the same problem, camera mounted on top of monitor. All worked fine but when I looked down it would spaz out. 

Fixed it by tilting the camera down and wearing my cap higher on my head so it is directly pointing at the camera

[khurranakabeta]

 I used the TIR5 for years until mine died. The Tobii does head tracking and eye tracking.  Plus , with my progressive lenses, I can now see all my instruments clearly.

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