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Hi! I have just purchased Bf 109, using the current discount. I own P-51, P-47, and Spitfire, but I wanted a real dogfighter.

I have tried Bf 109 like a year ago or so, and I think there was a gunsight snapview, and also I think I could assign throttle to the throttle lever on my joystick, but I can't find these options now in the control panel. Also, it seems that Page Up and Page Down keys don't work for propeller control, and also that flare gun key bounds Left Alt + 1, 2, 3, 4 don't work. Am I missing something? Are these some kind of current issues with Bf 109?

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To assign the throttle to an axis you need to press the axis tab.

As to prop control, make sure the governor is off, otherwise you can press those buttons all day, it won't matter.

Also, the flare gun keys to select the different colors works for me. Do you even have the flare gun installed in the cockpit?


Edited by razo+r
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you own the P-51,..., and Spitfire, but you wanted a real dogfighter? So what is the Spit if not a dogfighter?
Re your other points, it might help to spend some time with the flight manual which is quite good!

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LeCuvier

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If this is your first axis plane, forget about how manage engine in spitfire or p-51.

Bf-109 has prop control linked with throttle permanently, there is manual pitch mode for prop but this is not what you think it is, it same thing as in P-47 that you can switch to direct pitch control, not very useful anyway unless governor fails.

Keep governor switch on and you control engine power with throttle alone nothing else, if you want cruise power you retard throttle and if you want combat power you push throttle forward that's it, don't forget to switch mw-50 on since when you pass certain point with throttle advancement engine will boost 1.8/2800 rpm regardless  if mw-50 is on or not. And without mw50 engine will fail at this power settings.


Edited by grafspee
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Adding to what was written above, gunsight view options you probably remember (cruise view / gunsight view /  combined toggle-view-when-clicking-on-gunsight) are selectable in game special options menu.

Options for having a flare gun or not and for rear tank content (MW mix / fuel / empty) are selectable in your airplane properties tab in the mission editor.

Recent Issues compared to a year ago? Well, fuel cutoff lever cannot be left/right mouse clicked anymore like it used to be (has to be mouse-dragged), same problem used to affect fuel pumps lever (it doesn't anymore on my PC, but I don't remember if it's because of official fix, or modded .lua file I've been using for months). Other than that, situation with known minor bugs and glitches seems to be stable for years ;).


Edited by Art-J
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21 hours ago, razo+r said:

To assign the throttle to an axis you need to press the axis tab.

As to prop control, make sure the governor is off, otherwise you can press those buttons all day, it won't matter.

Also, the flare gun keys to select the different colors works for me. Do you even have the flare gun installed in the cockpit?

 

Oh yes, thank you, I was in a hurry yesterday and was looking in the engine tab instead of the axis tab.

I thought LAlt + 1, 2, 3, 4 would both select and fire the flare, but now I realize it is only select, and fire is LAlt + `.

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8 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

you own the P-51,..., and Spitfire, but you wanted a real dogfighter? So what is the Spit if not a dogfighter?
Re your other points, it might help to spend some time with the flight manual which is quite good!

P-51 is almost there, but it's too sensitive, I want to fly more aggressively.

Spitfire is nowhere there, it's got poor cockpit visibility, awful gun sight positioned too low, it's too slow, it can't really dive, it's too wobbly that I can't aim a thing. Yes I know I could adjust "saturation", but I like to compare all aircraft to each other the way they are, and if it's a matter of the stick length in real life compared to the length of a joystick, how come P-51 and P-47 and Bf 109 don't have such an issue. Spitfire feels great to fly around, it's like a flying feather, but for dogfight it's unusable to me.

Bf 109 allows me freedom of movement, it is both maneuverable and stable. When I want to climb I climb, when I want to dive I dive, when I want to turn I turn, no drama whatsoever, it just flies. It also got ok gun sight, slightly less visibility from cockpit, but still better than Spitfire.

But Mustang is still my first choice for general flying and second choice for dogfight.

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7 hours ago, grafspee said:

If this is your first axis plane, forget about how manage engine in spitfire or p-51.

Bf-109 has prop control linked with throttle permanently, there is manual pitch mode for prop but this is not what you think it is, it same thing as in P-47 that you can switch to direct pitch control, not very useful anyway unless governor fails.

Keep governor switch on and you control engine power with throttle alone nothing else, if you want cruise power you retard throttle and if you want combat power you push throttle forward that's it, don't forget to switch mw-50 on since when you pass certain point with throttle advancement engine will boost 1.8/2800 rpm regardless  if mw-50 is on or not. And without mw50 engine will fail at this power settings.

 

Oh, so the prop controll is permanently linked with the throttle, that is actually very practical. I always do it manually with P-47.

6 hours ago, Art-J said:

Adding to what was written above, gunsight view options you probably remember (cruise view / gunsight view /  combined toggle-view-when-clicking-on-gunsight) are selectable in game special options menu.

Options for having a flare gun or not and for rear tank content (MW mix / fuel / empty) are selectable in your airplane properties tab in the mission editor.

Recent Issues compared to a year ago? Well, fuel cutoff lever cannot be left/right mouse clicked anymore like it used to be (has to be mouse-dragged), same problem used to affect fuel pumps lever (it doesn't anymore on my PC, but I don't remember if it's because of official fix, or modded .lua file I've been using for months). Other than that, situation with known minor bugs and glitches seems to be stable for years ;).

 

I think I remember there was a snap view on the gun sight. But now all ten snap views are just showing the cockpit with FOV 60.

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21 minutes ago, Silent Film said:

Spitfire is nowhere there, it's got poor cockpit visibility, awful gun sight positioned too low, it's too slow, it can't really dive, it's too wobbly that I can't aim a thing. Yes I know I could adjust "saturation", but I like to compare all aircraft to each other the way they are, and if it's a matter of the stick length in real life compared to the length of a joystick, how come P-51 and P-47 and Bf 109 don't have such an issue. Spitfire feels great to fly around, it's like a flying feather, but for dogfight it's unusable to me.

I'll tell you a secret, Spitfire is actually the best dive performer, historically it was the fastest airframe in a dive capable of reaching 0.92 Mach IIRC. From that starting point, maybe you want to rethink the rest you said :biggrin: .

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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12 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I'll tell you a secret, Spitfire is actually the best dive performer, historically it was the fastest airframe in a dive capable of reaching 0.92 Mach IIRC. From that starting point, maybe you want to rethink the rest you said :biggrin: .

Not really. That was a one-off trial which tore the propeller reduction gearbox off the engine and caused the pilot to black out from the resulting pitch up. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160505-the-spitfires-that-nearly-broke-the-sound-barrier

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@Skewgear Spitfire surpass every ww2 plane in high speed dives and it is only prop plane which score +0.9 mach in dive without killing pilot.

Thing is what typical engagements in DCS are low level, spitfire superior dive speed is between 40k-20k ft of alt, at lower alt mach number is much lower and spitfire does not perform as good as at high alt. It is difficult to utilize this strong side of spitfire in DCS 

 


Edited by grafspee

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3 hours ago, Skewgear said:

Not really. That was a one-off trial which tore the propeller reduction gearbox off the engine and caused the pilot to black out from the resulting pitch up. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160505-the-spitfires-that-nearly-broke-the-sound-barrier

Yes, I know, and anyway the low drag elliptical wing profile is the cause of the good performance in diving (same as P-47) so of course it's modelled in DCS as we have two elliptical wing models to fly. But it was a joke and sort of head ups in case he realizes how he just told one cliche after another and many of those things he's "suffering" are only his own faults, not the aircraft. Maybe he sees it as I already told him one thing which falls apart his house of cards settled beliefs  🤣 . I'm sure he's curious enough to find it.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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On 7/12/2022 at 12:41 AM, Ala13_ManOWar said:

But it was a joke and sort of head ups in case he realizes how he just told one cliche after another and many of those things he's "suffering" are only his own faults, not the aircraft. Maybe he sees it as I already told him one thing which falls apart his house of cards settled beliefs  🤣 . I'm sure he's curious enough to find it.

Sure 🙂, I was "curious", so I did I small diving test so that I realize how my "settled beliefs" fell apart. 🤣🤣🤣

 

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11 minutes ago, Silent Film said:

Sure 🙂, I was "curious", so I did I small diving test so that I realize how my "settled beliefs" fell apart. 🤣🤣🤣

 

I have question, what kind of controller are you using ?? Your control inputs are rather erratic. 


Edited by grafspee
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Am 12.7.2022 um 00:41 schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

Yes, I know, and anyway the low drag elliptical wing profile is the cause of the good performance in diving (same as P-47) so of course it's modelled in DCS as we have two elliptical wing models to fly. But it was a joke and sort of head ups in case he realizes how he just told one cliche after another and many of those things he's "suffering" are only his own faults, not the aircraft. Maybe he sees it as I already told him one thing which falls apart his house of cards settled beliefs  🤣 . I'm sure he's curious enough to find it.

Just because it's faster doesn't mean it's better in a dive, a D9 in comparison can still be steered very well without the wings tearing off.

and especially if the target is moving (this happens very often) and you need corrections, you can forget it in the Spitfire.

what he says about the Spitfire and P51 is true as far as in DCS


Edited by Hobel
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On 7/13/2022 at 8:15 PM, Silent Film said:

Sure 🙂, I was "curious", so I did I small diving test so that I realize how my "settled beliefs" fell apart. 🤣🤣🤣

As said, yes you proved it. If you really think that's a diving test… 😅  A dive test means climbing up to 10.000 metres and dive all the way to the ground or the aircraft structural limits, whatever comes first, to check behaviours and all. You can't dive test anything from 2000 ft 😁.

Anyhow, flying in those conditions (I also had that kind of joystick some 25 years ago, it's awful, yes, but 30fps aren't helping either) just do whatever suits you, you have not many choices left actually. If you get used to 109 which flies quite nicely to my taste there you go :thumbup: .

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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vor 44 Minuten schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

As said, yes you proved it. If you really think that's a diving test… 😅  A dive test means climbing up to 10.000 metres and dive all the way to the ground or the aircraft structural limits, whatever comes first, to check behaviours and all. You can't dive test anything from 2000 ft 😁.

Anyhow, flying in those conditions (I also had that kind of joystick some 25 years ago, it's awful, yes, but 30fps aren't helping either) just do whatever suits you, you have not many choices left actually. If you get used to 109 which flies quite nicely to my taste there you go :thumbup: .

I think the test is just to show how well the planes can be intercepted, try intercepting a sptifire at 400 knots like the other planes.

and the test is sufficient for that.

Even if he could keep the Sptifire more stable, it is undeniably a bad diver.

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I guess that depends on many things of which the lesser one isn't the controls you have available at home and the used you are to them. To me it isn't "unstable" at all, twitchy if handled carelessly? sure it is, but once you get used to the controls (and since we're in a sim those controls configured good enough for you) it isn't at all, it's quite stable and pleasant to fly. That's why if we only take our own experiences as the only "reference" we all have a different one depending on how it went to oneself at your home, with your rig, with your controls and your controls setup. Anybody wonders why that own home experience of each one matches closely RL stories and data in some cases, while it wildly disagrees in others? You can start searching there for where does the differences come from.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

I guess that depends on many things of which the lesser one isn't the controls you have available at home and the used you are to them. To me it isn't "unstable" at all, twitchy if handled carelessly? sure it is, but once you get used to the controls (and since we're in a sim those controls configured good enough for you) it isn't at all, it's quite stable and pleasant to fly. That's why if we only take our own experiences as the only "reference" we all have a different one depending on how it went to oneself at your home, with your rig, with your controls and your controls setup. Anybody wonders why that own home experience of each one matches closely RL stories and data in some cases, while it wildly disagrees in others? You can start searching there for where does the differences come from.

That's why I also say he could keep it more stable.

And  the controls you have at home have nothing to do with the spitfire being a bad diver.

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🤣 Yeah, strictly speaking they don't, but I don't see why it's so bad at dive while I can hold my controls quite fine and keep it stable. Last time I bagged a careless 109 online I just dove to him 25lbs of boost and had no problem in stability, neither to reach him nor firing. Who knows.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

🤣 Yeah, strictly speaking they don't, but I don't see why it's so bad at dive while I can hold my controls quite fine and keep it stable. Last time I bagged a careless 109 online I just dove to him 25lbs of boost and had no problem in stability, neither to reach him nor firing. Who knows.

If all other ww2 dcs aircraft have better handling at high speeds, then the spitfire is probably the worst as far as this category.😁

 

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  • 9 months later...

The Spit is roundly criticized for it's performance in the downhill, as speed picks up in the dive the control surfaces get heavy and pitch and roll response make the aircraft feel like it's stuck in molasses.

The K4 is better in the regard, it's probably the most well rounded aircraft along with the Mustang. The real downhill monsters are the 190's - they maintain their crisp roll rate at high speed, and can really bite into the air and haul their noses around in terms of pitch well past 550 kph.

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