correct as-is M230 gun area or point attack weapon?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Looking at effects of gun it acts more like  area effect weapon with wide beaten zone, rather then point target . Like a cluster bomb or ICM artillery round. 

[Swift.]

Thats why its called the 'Area Weapon System'

[FalcoGer]

Ever since the TSE was implemented, I found it to be plenty accurate. Still doubt 3 direct hits would kill a BMP, but what do i know. Certainly would blow up the tires, antennas and optics. On the other hand, still doubt that 10 3m misses would leave infantry in a fighting state. From what I gathered it's like a small grenade launcher. Shrapnel everywhere.

[Poptart]

1 hour ago, FalcoGer said:

Ever since the TSE was implemented, I found it to be plenty accurate. Still doubt 3 direct hits would kill a BMP, but what do i know. Certainly would blow up the tires, antennas and optics. On the other hand, still doubt that 10 3m misses would leave infantry in a fighting state. From what I gathered it's like a small grenade launcher. Shrapnel everywhere.

Agree. The M789 HEDP rounds have about 20 grams of explosives in a shaped charge. It would do well against about an inch of steel armor with a direct hit but I doubt it would do well against a modern tank at range. The sleeve is designed to throw a lot of shrapnel and it does that well. In DCS a 17 pound Hydra rocket can't damage a BMP but a M789 can take it out.  In reality that rocket has about 5lbs of comp B in a shaped charge. 

[WinterH]

17 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Looking at effects of gun it acts more like  area effect weapon with wide beaten zone, rather then point target . Like a cluster bomb or ICM artillery round. 

It's almost like the thing is called "Area Weapon System" huh ?

[QuiGon]

22 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Looking at effects of gun it acts more like  area effect weapon with wide beaten zone, rather then point target . Like a cluster bomb or ICM artillery round. 

It's literally called the Area Weapon System (AWS) officially!

Edited July 18, 2022 by QuiGon

[S. Low]

It IS an area effect weapon… go watch some YouTube vids

[McGraw]

3 hours ago, S. Low said:

It IS an area effect weapon… go watch some YouTube vids

Or even read the manual!

[Bunny Clark]

I actually kinda wish it was a little more "area" than it is. I spend a lot of time drawing squiggly lines around my target with the helmet sight as I try to aim with TrackIR. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Bunny Clark

[Floyd1212]

If I'm on the move, I try to conserve ammo with short bursts, but then it dances around the target and doesn't seem to do much.  I feel like you need to let 15-20 rounds go to fully saturate an area where there might be a few soft targets.

If I'm in a dead hover, and within 1000m of the target, my CPG can usually snipe infantry with a single shot.

Not sure how realistic that is, but it seems to be very accurate when shooting from a stationary platform.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Recalling RW (1990's) training I received. Russian/Soviet heavy machine guns DSHK, NSVm, Kord,NPV(14.5) and DCS experience , anything closer then 1,500 meters and they will get you. Thus far if my Apache is around 1,500 to 1,700 meters from threat, the area effect of M230 fired by CP/G appears well over 10 meters. I can see splashes all around the threat in TADS, 'from my gun, yet the threat remains alive and firing. Its a bit too much of an 'area'. To get Apache into near motionless stabilized hover takes far too long for me, and time between CP/G "Engaging" or "Firing" and burst is far too long right now, and would not be effective. I am hovering and counting 'thousand one' 'thousand two', after 5 I am unhappy. At 7 I am very unhappy. At 10 I figure I won't be stable enough ever for George to fire, so I try again from different position. Same with Hellfires, where the George is lasing, the engagement box is large and dashed line. George report "Engaging" I can see AI sweetening the spot on TADS, yet Hellfire is not released. Engaging SHORAD SAM, seconds matter, an I need to have the Apache have some speed of around 50 knots, so I can take evasive. If I am in stationary hover around 10kms from SHORAD or longer threat, I am unable to get sufficient speed in time to evade. In DCS, hovering or flight just above tree top won't protect you. MANPADS ,SHORAD, AAA, IFV, APC, and even tanks will see you and fire what they got including their anti-tank missiles. I have to get between tree lines to have cover. Buildings are better, and terrain depressions are best, as long as there elevated terrain between depression and threat.

[QuiGon]

3 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Recalling RW (1990's) training I received. Russian/Soviet heavy machine guns DSHK, NSVm, Kord,NPV(14.5) and DCS experience , anything closer then 1,500 meters and they will get you. Thus far if my Apache is around 1,500 to 1,700 meters from threat, the area effect of M230 fired by CP/G appears well over 10 meters. I can see splashes all around the threat in TADS, 'from my gun, yet the threat remains alive and firing.

Splashes all around the target, even at 10+ m away from the target, have a big effect on the target itself IRL (at least if it's not armored). A machine gunner that has hand grenades exploding all around them will likely get hit by some fragmentation or will be heavily supressed at the least. Unfortunately DCS does a rather bad job at simulating fragmentation damage and does no job at all at simulating suppression effects. That's why the gun is much less effective in DCS than IRL. Accuracy is not the reason.

[3WA]

Was noticing this the other day with Ka-50.  Shoot 5 or 6 rockets from range at a Stinger soldier.  They land all around near him, but he doesn't die.

Appears to be no fragmentation effect whatsoever in DCS.

[QuiGon]

3 hours ago, 3WA said:

Was noticing this the other day with Ka-50.  Shoot 5 or 6 rockets from range at a Stinger soldier.  They land all around near him, but he doesn't die.

Appears to be no fragmentation effect whatsoever in DCS.

Yes, that's a known issue.

[Scaley]

13 hours ago, 3WA said:

Was noticing this the other day with Ka-50.  Shoot 5 or 6 rockets from range at a Stinger soldier.  They land all around near him, but he doesn't die.

Appears to be no fragmentation effect whatsoever in DCS.

Yes, indeed there never has been any kind of frag modelling in DCS. In days of old some weapons had bigger blast values that sort-of compensated for this. For several years now the blast values have been more sensible, but this now means that weapons that reply heavily of frag against soft targets (GP bombs, rockets, HE gun rounds, etc) massively under-perform compared to things that directly hit the target. There are a few mods which attempt to rectify this, but the main one I know of is very script intensive in that it basically detects every weapon impact and then triggers another set of explosions around the initial impact to replicate a frag pattern. I would guess this should be fixed as part of the ongoing damage model work by ED, but the timeframe for that is going to be LONG given the amount of work it's going to be across all the many many modules and objects in the game.