If an elite DCS:BS player takes the real KA-50...

[Vortex]

That is impressive stuff, you should be rightly proud.

 

I should have been clearer though - nobody can hover first time out to a level that would facilitate a take off and landing. While taking nothing away from you, keeping it in a 5m circle wouldn't allow you to land safely. :thumbup:

 

It's been done by a couple of people at the training school I attended.

My first go in a heli (an R22) at a hover on my first flight, I held it stationary and could position left or right over a spot, landed on the grass then tookoff again, my instructor used to say I was "blessed by the hover fairy", I wish I was blessed with the 180 auto fairy instead! It took me a while to get that right.

 

But it's alot different to taking off cold with no feel for the control effects one at a time. I would have crashed for sure if the instructor got in started it up and said "right raise the collective and lets takeoff to the hover"

Edited December 30, 2008 by Vortex

[Shrubbo]

I've been flying RC helis for 20 years, and I've also heard this myth that it's harder to pilot a RC heli than a real one, which is not true at all.

a) You're standing safe on the ground

b) Your RC heli can withstand a ridiculous amount of G-forces without getting destroyed

c) You're standing safe on the ground

d) You're standing safe on the ground

 

;)

But when it comes to flying a "real" RC-heli, you can learn 99% of this in a RC-heli simulator like Reflex XTR or RealFlight

 

 

Hehhe non of that actually points to easier or harder, just a damn site safer and BTW I could be considered somewhat odd, I refused to use the computer sim gear. I played on this thing all the time. I wanted to smash the real thing up. Not only did I learn how to fly the thing around I also learned how to rebuild the whole thing... ahhh good times :D

[sobek]

Not only did I learn how to fly the thing around I also learned how to rebuild the whole thing... ahhh good times :D

 

... and kept the cashflow going, i suppose ;)

[Aser]

Were the hands and feet of the instructor off the controls??? If yes, that'ss true amazing!

After playing a little bit in BS I think I could start it and fly it, but I'm sure as hell I'll die if anything goes wrong in that flight... so I wouldn't try it for real without the type rating course.

 

Regards

Aser

 

It's been done by a couple of people at the training school I attended.

My first go in a heli (an R22) at a hover on my first flight, I held it stationary and could position left or right over a spot, landed on the grass then tookoff again, my instructor used to say I was "blessed by the hover fairy", I wish I was blessed with the 180 auto fairy instead! It took me a while to get that right.

 

But it's alot different to taking off cold with no feel for the control effects one at a time. I would have crashed for sure if the instructor got in started it up and said "right raise the collective and lets takeoff to the hover"

[Vortex]

Were the hands and feet of the instructor off the controls??? If yes, that'ss true amazing!

After playing a little bit in BS I think I could start it and fly it, but I'm sure as hell I'll die if anything goes wrong in that flight... so I wouldn't try it for real without the type rating course.

 

Regards

Aser

 

Yeah hands off the controls, feet on the floor. He was in that position when they think your going to try kill them, ready to grab the cyclic :lol:

 

I was more pleased with the second flight when he let me land in the prime position right out the front of the school. Nerve wracking stuff landing a few metres from a building you know everyone is watching, it was a reasonable landing from what I remember given the relief and joy I felt.

 

Funny thing is during my flight test I couldn't maintain a 60 knot attitude in the circuit :doh: I still passed but I just thought I'd mention that being able to hover so early didn't really mean anything, I just happened to try the correct level of input earlier on.

[ObvilionLost]

I wouldn't be able to fly KA-50 professinally as real KA-50 pilot, but most important I know how to turn on the ejection system on the KA-50 :thumbup:

 

Simulator might not teach you how to fly, but it sure can teach you how to operate systems in real helicopter. I bet any DCS BS pilot could easily operate real KA-50 weapon system.

Edited December 30, 2008 by ObvilionLost

[Tango]

but most important I know how to turn on the ejection system on the KA-50

:D :D

 

Best regards,

Tango.

[Obiwan]

Regarding a Ka-50. Taking off would probably by "no problem", landing...

 

First off, Greetings! (first post...yay)... and thank you for BS. I think my days in FS9 are coming to a close. DCS:BS is so much more fun. Even after flying the Dodo, the vortex ring state in BS has me watching out for it (and getting out of it) better than anything else. This sim seems to be #1 in regards to flight dyamics.

 

However, I do have some suggestions. The "landing" thread reminded me of it... While I really appreciate the blown tires, one thing doesn't appear to be modelled/simulated properly is Ground Resonance. It would be awesome if a hard landing could actually bring the blades out of sync and cause resonance, up to destruction.

 

The same applies to flight. It became very apparent during a flight with 5 blades (lost one to bullets or missles or something that wasn't supposed to be in the blades path :) I would assume that flight with 5 blades instead of 6 wouldn't last long either, with the helicopter shaking itself apart. Perhaps that's something for future patches/upgrades. I would think it could be implemented rather easily, seeing how fragile the aircraft is already (meaning, able to take damage and react to it).

 

Anyway, thanks again for an awesome flightsim!

 

[Edit: Just found another thread about ground resonance. Sorry for the dupe.]

Edited December 31, 2008 by Obiwan

[EvilBivol-1]

However, I do have some suggestions. The "landing" thread reminded me of it... While I really appreciate the blown tires, one thing doesn't appear to be modelled/simulated properly is Ground Resonance. It would be awesome if a hard landing could actually bring the blades out of sync and cause resonance, up to destruction.

I can't comment on anything else, but here's a recent post by Yo-Yo in regard to ground resonance in Black Shark:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=604011&postcount=2

[Obiwan]

I can't comment on anything else, but here's a recent post by Yo-Yo in regard to ground resonance in Black Shark:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=604011&postcount=2

 

 

Hmm... after thinking about it more, it makes sense that a counter-rotating set of blades help stabilize the rotor mast, and ground resonance is less of an issue. At least during landing/taxing I would imagine.

 

However, flying with one blade missing has got to be a bad thing. If the real aircraft would survive that... well... hats off to Kamov!

[nightlynx]

I would assume that flight with 5 blades instead of 6 wouldn't last long either, with the helicopter shaking itself apart. Perhaps that's something for future patches/upgrades.

 

I smashed into my wingman and lost 2 blades ( I think, once I hit the ride started :megalol:) I managed to hold it steady for a little but then the rest of the blades broke off and I dropped like a rock. Now that I think about it maybe they just hit each other but I don't know, the thing was shaking something fierce.

[Obiwan]

I smashed into my wingman and lost 2 blades ( I think, once I hit the ride started :megalol:) I managed to hold it steady for a little but then the rest of the blades broke off and I dropped like a rock. Now that I think about it maybe they just hit each other but I don't know, the thing was shaking something fierce.

 

Awesome :)

 

hm... maybe I just got lucky that day. Glad to see the ride ends as expected.

 

The more I play it, the more I discover how superbly it's simulated. Couple days ago I lost an engine, but for some reason didn't have enough lift left, which seemed odd. I thought the aircraft should be able to fly on one engine. So, yesterday when I got my left engine shredded by a Vulcan, I hit the pause button and thought (before acting in panic) what the next steps would be. Aight, fire is out. Closing left fuel lever...oh, ah, yes, I should jettison the rocket pods and dispose of any remaining Vikhrs. As soon as that was done, whaddayaknow... I was able to fly back to home plate quite comfortably.

 

I can't see myself going back to any other flightsim ever again :)

 

Cheers, and Happy New Year!

[Buznee]

I remember reading that ground resonance was usually caused from the lead/lag motion of the rotor blades during spool up and spool down. If you notice on helicopters with fully articulated rotors there are dampers on each rotor blade to filter out the lead/lag frequency that is critical to resonance.

 

I know the KA-50 definitely has a flapping hinge but not sure if it's fully articulated in lead lag. It doesn't appear to be. It might be something like an elastomeric bearing of some sort that also acts as a damper. I don't see how the coax configuration of the KA-50 makes it invulnerable to ground resonance though. Might not be likely to get into it due to proper damping though.

 

Rotor systems that don't have lead lag hinges, like semi rigid and flex beam designs usually don't encounter ground resonance but can get into vibratory states. (I think) :music_whistling:

[leafer]

First, he'll squirt yellow juice when he pull on the stick and the world around him actually tilt. Then he'll crash and burn. The first time I went on a demo flight in a Cherokee and I was told to bank the aircraft, I litterally felt like I was going to fall out the little side window. Every time I was told to bank about 45 degree and take us that way, I would bank just a lil' bit -- about 2 degrees. Then the instructor would instruct me again -- 45 degrees. I'd bank a lil' more. Then he'd say 45 degree please and I would add a lil' more...this went on for a bit until he finally busted out laughing.

[Vortex]

I'm surprised nobody has posted this old beauty of the guy who bought himself a heli and tried to fly it without lessons.

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mo82pnyMR44

[Tigrom]

I'm surprised nobody has posted this old beauty of the guy who bought himself a heli and tried to fly it without lessons.

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mo82pnyMR44

 

Hehehe, a classic.

 

Remember kids, don't try and fly your shiny new helicopter until your instructor arrives.

[aledmb]

he wasn't even 1 second in control of that thing.

imagine that with a multi-million chopper.

 

edit: loaded to it's teeth!

[redtail]

LOL......I remember my first few lessons in 45 degree steep turns......hahaha.

C172

[AlphaOneSix]

not sure if it's fully articulated in lead lag. It doesn't appear to be.

 

It is. :)

[Buznee]

rotor design

 

Hm... I'm a little confused then because in the english manual on part 1-4 it specifies the rotor heads are unhinged.

 

"The main rotor heads are unhinged, and the blades are attached to them through the torsion bars installed in self- lubricating bearings."

 

This is odd because I definitely see that they have at least have a free moving flapping hinge (you can see this if you put some turbulence in game and watch the blades flap up and down and hit their stops). By torsion bars do they mean the feathering (pitch-change) motion of the blades are through elastic deformation of the torsion bars?

 

I know for example, the bell 412 has a rotor design in which the flapping motion is due to elastic deformation (flex beam) rather than a free moving articulated bearing. But the feathering (pitch-change) motion and lead/lag is done through a elastomeric bearing (bearing with rubber and metal plates)

 

Here is a pic

[Acedy]

As far as I understand it the feathering and lagging hinges use mechanical bearings, while the flapping hinge consist of the torsion bar.

[Aser]

Hi Buznee,

A rotor is fully articulated by hinges or elastomerics, it doesn't matter.

 

fully is a 412 or uh60 or Ka50 but not a Bo105 that is really rigid without dampers or hinges.

 

Regards

Aser

 

Hm... I'm a little confused then because in the english manual on part 1-4 it specifies the rotor heads are unhinged.

 

"The main rotor heads are unhinged, and the blades are attached to them through the torsion bars installed in self- lubricating bearings."

 

This is odd because I definitely see that they have at least have a free moving flapping hinge (you can see this if you put some turbulence in game and watch the blades flap up and down and hit their stops). By torsion bars do they mean the feathering (pitch-change) motion of the blades are through elastic deformation of the torsion bars?

 

I know for example, the bell 412 has a rotor design in which the flapping motion is due to elastic deformation (flex beam) rather than a free moving articulated bearing. But the feathering (pitch-change) motion and lead/lag is done through a elastomeric bearing (bearing with rubber and metal plates)

 

Here is a pic

[Debio]

I'm surprised nobody has posted this old beauty of the guy who bought himself a heli and tried to fly it without lessons.

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mo82pnyMR44

 

ya. i remember that one...