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We're getting the F-4 "Family", what versions do/don't the people want in the future?


Czechnology

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Here is my list in the order I want them.

  1. F-4G- this really high on the list, not only because the flight model would be the same as the E but also if HB can get the information it would bring something new to the EW enviroment
  2. B/N/S- in short the US Naval Phantoms we have one USAF Phantom in the works, 
  3. M/K- 
  4. C/D
  5. F-any post 2k upgrade

2,3,and 4 really have no preferences 


Edited by upyr1
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I'm personally really dedicated to a similar time period F-4J. Similar flight model would ease development, hard part is a new radar system and adjusting the physical model to remove the gun.

Think it's just different enough a flavor of Phantom to make it worth putting out without being boring. 

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7 hours ago, Czechnology said:

I'm personally really dedicated to a similar time period F-4J. Similar flight model would ease development, hard part is a new radar system and adjusting the physical model to remove the gun.

Think it's just different enough a flavor of Phantom to make it worth putting out without being boring. 

The E and J wouldn't have a similar flight model. The nose would be an issue. The c, b, D, S and N would be closer to the J. I would like the helmet mounted sight if we get a late model Naval Phantom. 

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F-4S or bust for naval phantoms. As the F-4S has new leading edge slats, better missiles and Better Avionics. That or a F-4N as its the last phantom that one of the coolest F-14 Squadron , VF-111 flew.

I'd go for a UK phantom before any other foreign phantom as it fits in the South atlantic map

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I wouldn’t mind any of the modernized E variants like a Japanese F-4EJ Kai, Greek F-4E AUP, or Turkish F-4E Terminator 2020. Outside of modernized variants, I think Israeli F-4Es with their specialized payload options would be cool.

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The ones I want the most I'm already getting (and these best fit DCS as is IMO) other than that (in order):

  • F-4S/F-4J
  • F-4M (which would be right at home on the South Atlantic map from the mid 80s to the early 90s).
  • F-4G (as AI)

Don't really care for modernised ones, when the operators of all of them operate much more suitable aircraft for the era (apart from maybe a few year gap for Germany, at least as far as A/A goes).


Edited by Northstar98
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Some Naval Phantom (either J or S) would be great, as would some of the early ones (B/C). If we ever get a better EW environment the G would be fun too. Otherwise I don't really care for the modernized variants.

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I forsee the J being the next obvious step, but I would like to see the G, lots of local history with it.

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On 7/22/2022 at 3:12 AM, upyr1 said:

I want as many versions as possible 

This is the most honest answer I could give.  If I had my way, we would get every Phantom from every nation that flew it.  Ever.

BUT, since that's not realistic, I'll settle for as many as Heatblur can give us, which is less than I would idealistically want but probably more than I would reasonably expect.  It's Heatblur, and they're usually full of surprises.

 


Edited by Nexus-6
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Can't pretend fly as well as you can.

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  • 2 weeks later...

F-4B -- The original, classic Phantom II.   649 were built.  Some were converted to F-4N in the 1970's.

The first version we get is the last (US) land-based, fighter-bomber model, the F-4E (the F-4G being specialized to SEAD).  I'd say the next should be a Naval version.  I'll take any.  But I'd hope for the "B".  Although, I'm sure most people will want the "J" because they always seem to want the last model or most modernized model...and at that, many will want the F-4S (upgraded F-4J).  And after that, back to a land-based model, again, and I'd say the F-4D, this time...or the F-4C.

USAF in Vietnam:  F-4C's shot down 40 MiGs.  F-4D's shot down 42 MiGs.  F-4E's only shot down 20 (although their deployment time was more limited).  However, 370 USAF F-4 Phantoms were lost in combat in Vietnam, only 33 to MiGs (307 to AAA!!).  The US Navy F-4B and J Phantoms shot down 40 MiGs and lost 73 Phantoms, but only 7 to air-to-air.

The "big nosed" Phantoms did the bulk of the work in Vietnam.

And if you give us the HMS Ark Royal (R09) along with it, I'll take the F-4K (or FG.1, I think it was).

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don´t think I will get the E.

If you cant launch it from a carrier then I am not interested in a Phantom II.

I will wait for the B and can compromise with a J. If you are going to have a legend, give us the war proven original models, not the "franken" rehashes that can do what we already Can do with what we have.

Give us new experiences, more variety, not more ways to drop laser bombs...

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21 hours ago, Baco said:

I don´t think I will get the E.

If you cant launch it from a carrier then I am not interested in a Phantom II.

I will wait for the B and can compromise with a J. If you are going to have a legend, give us the war proven original models, not the "franken" rehashes that can do what we already Can do with what we have.

Give us new experiences, more variety, not more ways to drop laser bombs...

So much salt these days (I sort of get it because I'm about to let loose my own salt bags)... we get you prefer something else, that's fine and the USN birds are great. But you don't really have to poop on everyone else's parade just because you're not getting exactly what you want as if its an affront to civilized society.

But screw it, this is annoying, I'm projecting and I don't care so I'll bite. Here are some facts:

F-4B kills: 12 confirmed during the Vietnam War. Flown by the US.

F-4J kills: 20 confirmed during the Vietnam War. Flown by the US and UK

Awesome stuff, worthy aircraft. However:

F-4D: 45 kills confirmed during the Vietnam War. Further unknown amount with Iran. Flown by the US, Spain, Iran, RoK (South Korea).

F-4E: 23 kills confirmed during the Vietnam War. 116 or so confirmed kills during the War of Attrition, October/Yom Kippur War and 1982 Lebanon War.. Further unknown amount with Iran. Flown US, Israel, Iran, RoK (South Korea), Greece, Turkey. Most numerous version made.

Counterarguments:

1) Keep in mind not everyone on DCS is from the US. The F-4E was the original/only model for a lot of these countries. If this isn't war-proven, I don't know what is.

2) Just because it can drop LGB's somehow makes it the same experience as an F-16CJ? Go fly Korea or WW2 if you want something completely different. The Vietnam jets are inherently going to be more like modern jets than those planes.

An honest look at the F-4E's smart weapon capabilities shows that it is literally the in-between evolutionary step in weapons employment between the Korean-war era jets and the modern whizz-bang auto tracking targeting system-equipped modern fighters. That's an untouched sector in flight simulation. The F-4B delivery systems were almost the same from the end-user perspective as the F-86's, MiG-21bis or F-5's we have now... New experiences, you said?

3) If you want the original for immersion, I get it. I'd prefer a 1980s F-15A instead of the F-15E but it just makes sense that a version more countries have flown is being made. It appeals to more people and can always be restricted in many ways. You can't upgrade a variant in the game.. So take one second and see above why the F-4E makes sense. It's not the RIGHT choice, it's just a logical one. The F-4B, J and S are also cool choices and they're not wrong but you have to be fooling yourself if you don't see the merit as to why the E was chosen first. The saddest part is that the Navy versions are planned and people will STILL be unhappy.

Rant over. Have at me.


Edited by SgtPappy
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8 minutes ago, SgtPappy said:

So much salt these days (I sort of get it because I'm about to let loose my own salt bags)... we get you prefer something else, that's fine and the USN birds are great. But you don't really have to poop on everyone else's parade just because you're not getting exactly what you want as if its an affront to civilized society.

But screw it, this is annoying, I'm projecting and I don't care so I'll bite:

F-4B kills: 12 confirmed during the Vietnam War. Flown by the US.

F-4J kills: 20 confirmed during the Vietnam War. Flown by the US and UK

Awesome stuff, worthy aircraft. However:

F-4D: 45 kills confirmed during the Vietnam War. Further unknown amount with Iran. Flown by the US, Spain, Iran, RoK (South Korea).

F-4E: 23 kills confirmed during the Vietnam War. 116 or so confirmed kills during the War of Attrition and the October/Yom Kippur War.. Further unknown amount with Iran. Flown US, Israel, Iran, RoK (South Korea), Greece, Turkey. Most numerous version made. Keep in mind not everyone on DCS is from the US. This was the original model for a lot of these countries. If this isn't war-proven, I don't know what is. Just because it can drop LGB's somehow makes it the same experience as an F-16CJ? Go fly Korea or WW2 if you want something completely different. The Vietnam jets are inherently going to be more like modern jets than those planes.

If you want the original for immersion, I get it but take one second and see above why the F-4E makes sense. It's not the RIGHT choice, it's just a logical one. The F-4B, J and S are also cool choices and they're not wrong but you have to be fooling yourself if you don't see the merit as to why the E was chosen first. 

Rant over. 

Point taken. And yes I see why the E is the logical comercial conclusion, just like i see why it made sense to have an Apache or a Hind. But its not my cup of tea. Luckily some 70´s aircraft are being made so there will be toy for me in the future and hopefully the option of other models will not be taken off the table in the future for  a shinier module like the 95GR was scrapped in favor of the brand new phantom II, EF 2000, etc... and the Intruder pushed back.

 

P.s. the kills stats to justify one model over another makes no sense to me. i would kill for a Panther and it had very few kills, still it was the backbone of the USN in Korea...

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7 hours ago, Baco said:

Point taken. And yes I see why the E is the logical comercial conclusion, just like i see why it made sense to have an Apache or a Hind. But its not my cup of tea. Luckily some 70´s aircraft are being made so there will be toy for me in the future and hopefully the option of other models will not be taken off the table in the future for  a shinier module like the 95GR was scrapped in favor of the brand new phantom II, EF 2000, etc... and the Intruder pushed back.

 

P.s. the kills stats to justify one model over another makes no sense to me. i would kill for a Panther and it had very few kills, still it was the backbone of the USN in Korea...

I somewhat agree, I only chose A2A kills because it's what I mostly remembered off the top of my head.

However it's still a part of combat action so it can't be ignored. And if you take the sorties flown, tonnage dropped, weapons fired, A2G kills etc., the F-4D/E still take the cake so they have seen more combat than their navy counterparts by almost every definition. I'm sure the day will be sweet when the F-4B/J will fly along side the E and we can simulate Navy-AF rivalry in real time online 😛

As for the F-14A-GR-95, I was under the impression that HB explicitly said that the F-4E would not take resources away and that their development went hand in hand.


Edited by SgtPappy
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59 minutes ago, Baco said:

like the 95GR was scrapped in favor of the brand new phantom II,

Hwat? No such thing occurred. The -95 wasn't originally promised, then or now, only an Iranian spinoff with some disabled systems was added further in development. There's TALK of setting up the "early" -135 so it can look like the older jets for the most part. Functionally the -135 "early" is going to fly the same as a US -95 would, just with a little extra jamming. All the early/late and -135 naming from HB were intended for was to separate the later 90s LANTIRN equipped jets that eventually got ALR-67 from the 80s-90s Tomcat with the old ALR-45 and still Air to Air focused. Giving us some visual or mounting options would let you maybe remove some stuff to pretend it's a -95 in 1981 off the Nimitz with no TCS or ALQ-126. Again, being considered but nothing concrete.

And the early jet basically is waiting on art from what I understand in past updates. Once the model can have the features backdated/added for the different As and the B then it should just be testing of the ALR-45 and that's about it.

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29 minuti fa, LanceCriminal86 ha scritto:

 

Hwat? No such thing occurred. The -95 wasn't originally promised, then or now, only an Iranian spinoff with some disabled systems was added further in development. There's TALK of setting up the "early" -135 so it can look like the older jets for the most part. Functionally the -135 "early" is going to fly the same as a US -95 would, just with a little extra jamming. All the early/late and -135 naming from HB were intended for was to separate the later 90s LANTIRN equipped jets that eventually got ALR-67 from the 80s-90s Tomcat with the old ALR-45 and still Air to Air focused. Giving us some visual or mounting options would let you maybe remove some stuff to pretend it's a -95 in 1981 off the Nimitz with no TCS or ALQ-126. Again, being considered but nothing concrete.

And the early jet basically is waiting on art from what I understand in past updates. Once the model can have the features backdated/added for the different As and the B then it should just be testing of the ALR-45 and that's about it.

Ehm no.

HB is actually developing a true -95GR for the iranian version that will have a somewhat restricted weapon loadout, no TCS and no lantirn capability.

They recently told in the recent interview once the -135GR Early is released it will "unlock" the development for the -95GR.

Check their roadmap if unsure: https://trello.com/c/gTm512yI/15-f-14a-95gr-iriaf-version-bonus


Edited by Mig Fulcrum
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4 minutes ago, Mig Fulcrum said:

Ehm no.

HB is actually developing a true -95GR for the iranian version that will have a somewhat restricted weapon loadout, no TCS and no lantirn capability.

They recently told in the recent interview once the -135GR Early is released it will "unlock" the development for the -95GR.

Chek their roadmap if unsure: https://trello.com/c/gTm512yI/15-f-14a-95gr-iriaf-version-bonus

 

The Iranian -95 will not be a full and "true" Iranian -95 in itself. Unless something massive changes it will still have the same externals as the -135 Early, maybe with the ALQ-100 only but maybe just with the TCS bullet housing. It will probably still have the late -115+ beaver tail with ECM. If the early external model gets the older vents it probably will have those. Probably will have the external tank pylons, unless that too changes across the board. It has been stated more than once that it will be the "Early" -135 with some features turned off and Iranian skins. Everything depends on what the art team decides to change for the earlier external model. If they add changeable TCS pods and removable ALQ-126, and removable tank pylons then sure, it will be pretty darn close to an Iranian jet.

They added the option for an Iranian player jet further down the road in development as a bonus.

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