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Difficult to fly


tazzharm

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Hey guys. well to start off I'm using oculus quest 2 in vr and new gaming pc

gtx 3070 with AMD Ryzen 5 5600X

couple of questions.

I try the training missions to start up and taxi and take off all is fine , but when I either do wolf pack mission or make my own I find the p47 runs rougher and doesn't fly as smooth as the training flight. not sure why I am noticing a difference but tend to blow motor on take off but not in training mission

I can only get to the 2nd wolf pack mission as once I get over enemy area I start to get some sort of tearing across screen in vr. I've set all to low and still get it and it doesn't do it on self made missions aslo does it during f18 default missions from time to time. very strange. I've adjusted settings from high to as low with some things off such as grass and such and the missions are still doing it. thoughts?

 

thanks for any input.

Glenn.

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-12900K--32gigs ram--Gtx 3070--windows 11--Oculus Quest 2 VR--X-56 Hotas . DCS Openworld Beta

 

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4 hours ago, tazzharm said:

I try the training missions to start up and taxi and take off all is fine , but when I either do wolf pack mission or make my own I find the p47 runs rougher and doesn't fly as smooth as the training flight. not sure why I am noticing a difference but tend to blow motor on take off but not in training mission

The description is a bit too vague, so you'd be better off with saving a short replay track (of your own mission, not campaign one) and posting it here so that we can take a look what's happening in it exactly.

That being said, it's usually a case of new player forgetting to lock the primer pump handle after priming (that will make the engine run rough), or forgetting to warm up the oil before takeoff properly (that will kill the engine pretty quick). Training mission for taxiing and takeoff already has the plane set up and warmed up correctly, that's why you didn't have problems in that one.

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i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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1 hour ago, Art-J said:

The description is a bit too vague, so you'd be better off with saving a short replay track (of your own mission, not campaign one) and posting it here so that we can take a look what's happening in it exactly.

That being said, it's usually a case of new player forgetting to lock the primer pump handle after priming (that will make the engine run rough), or forgetting to warm up the oil before takeoff properly (that will kill the engine pretty quick). Training mission for taxiing and takeoff already has the plane set up and warmed up correctly, that's why you didn't have problems in that one.

ohh. ok that makes sense. I do lock the pump handle after priming but maybe taxi too fast after start up. I will keep an eye on what your saying and see.

with the other not sure how to upload a vr vid as my upload speed is 1mb ... yes it sucks. lol

I'll have to look it up and see if any pics on google to explain what I'm seeing but find the missions get buggy about half way into it as my own plop enemy and fly I don't get the same glitches.

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-12900K--32gigs ram--Gtx 3070--windows 11--Oculus Quest 2 VR--X-56 Hotas . DCS Openworld Beta

 

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1 hour ago, tazzharm said:

ohh. ok that makes sense. I do lock the pump handle after priming but maybe taxi too fast after start up. I will keep an eye on what your saying and see.

with the other not sure how to upload a vr vid as my upload speed is 1mb ... yes it sucks. lol

I'll have to look it up and see if any pics on google to explain what I'm seeing but find the missions get buggy about half way into it as my own plop enemy and fly I don't get the same glitches.

track from mission not video, size of track is very small couple megabytes.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Not only fuel primer lock, remember to take off with cowl flaps half opened, and close them immediately after take off when you reach 200mph or the buffeting and vibrations can be really bad, those are probably already set on training missions nor you probably fly long enough to notice.

On the other hand, you're speaking of pc performance at the same time, not sure how those might be exactly related.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Some ppl may close cowl flaps in order to warm up faster, but manual is clear, cowl flap full open to avoid spark plug wiring harness burn out, not sure is it modeled or not but for warm up regardless on outside temp  cowl flaps open fully.

I take off with cowl flaps full open every time i haven't encounter any problems with that take off setup.

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System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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You didn't notice but yes, you have had problems. While taking off with cowl flaps fully open there's a turbulence caused by them leading to a flutter in the elevator which prevents a proper control, and in bad weather, wake turbulence or the like it could even lead to crash. When cruising with cowl flaps open, full or half, there's either a bad turbulence which makes your control worst, and physical controls in cockpit are visibly shaking. Take off with half open cowl flaps, and close them once you're faster than 200mph and that's all, as per manual. And yes, that all is modelled and noticeable, try it.

And by the way again, yes, people might open or close cowl flaps and whatever, in fact no matter you open or close them the engine never warm up any faster, perhaps under heavy snow or something alike there's a little difference, but usually there's any at all. As per manual. Yes, it's modelled.

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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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18 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

You didn't notice but yes, you have had problems. While taking off with cowl flaps fully open there's a turbulence caused by them leading to a flutter in the elevator which prevents a proper control, and in bad weather, wake turbulence or the like it could even lead to crash. When cruising with cowl flaps open, full or half, there's either a bad turbulence which makes your control worst, and physical controls in cockpit are visibly shaking. Take off with half open cowl flaps, and close them once you're faster than 200mph and that's all, as per manual. And yes, that all is modelled and noticeable, try it.

And by the way again, yes, people might open or close cowl flaps and whatever, in fact no matter you open or close them the engine never warm up any faster, perhaps under heavy snow or something alike there's a little difference, but usually there's any at all. As per manual. Yes, it's modelled.

I take off with cowl flaps open but i close them before i hit 225mph, p-47 isn't exactly  top fule dragster so before plane hit 225 it is plenty time to close them 🙂 


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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wow great info guys.

tried yesterday, started up and sat for 10min on idle to let everything warm up . my temp still didn't get above 100 but was around 75 cylinder temp and tried everything . closed cowl flaps to half and actually got off the ground . now saying that I did notice the sound is different then training take off. we will call it clanging sound ish during take off it goes away once airborne after about 2min in air . could that be that it's still not warmed up long enough?

how long do you sit in parking to get to warm up?

do you also only start taxi after cylinder temp 100 or above?

I have fsx with a2a p47 so I do have some minor experience flying these type of planes but the dcs model is so much detailed it makes me feel like I've got no clue now lol

thanks for the help

not sure why I get the "flashing " in vr but may be caused by new updates . I did a small editor mission with some AI and it didn't happen only when large amounts of AI I guess in the missions. I will keep an eye on it see if it continues and will figure out how to post it in tech area . for now I'll focus on getting off the ground. with your guys help.

Glenn.

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-12900K--32gigs ram--Gtx 3070--windows 11--Oculus Quest 2 VR--X-56 Hotas . DCS Openworld Beta

 

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17 minutes ago, tazzharm said:

how long do you sit in parking to get to warm up?

do you also only start taxi after cylinder temp 100 or above?

That only depends on weather conditions, as expected. But mostly if your oil is about 40º you're good to taxi and take off. As said depends on the weather but I noticed many times oil temp is the latest to warm up, cylinder head temps are more than fine by the time oil reaches those 40º, or about it because sometimes oil really struggles to reach that minimum temp. Again depending on weather you can play with radiators, opening, closing, from the neutral position told in start-up to check how temps change once your engine is running to match them to your needs. In a really cold weather of course oil dilute will help. On the ground while idling, I'm not even sure cylinder head temps can overheat without engine being running high rpm/manifold, so try and don't be shy with it.

 

About your other issue, I wouldn't really know. Have you already tried deleting saved games/DCS/fxo and /Metashaders2 folders? Those are shaders built for the last patch and may cause some flickering, artefacts and the like, checking those won't harm at all, shaders are built up every time you start the game once deleted. Also, have you checked your graphics card drivers? Sometimes you even have to revert drivers until you find a driver version correctly working for your setup.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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@tazzharmWell, if there was "clanging sound", it means the engine was getting f..ed indeed, beacuse of oil not warmed up enough, and you were lucky that it kept running through these two minutes without seizure.

Cylinder head temps don't seem to be important. Despite what the manual says, I've never suffered a head-related failure with cowl flaps kept closed all the time. I guess it's either because relevant damage simulation might not implemented yet (?), or because I just wasn't testing in sufficiently hot weather conditions.

Oil temp and pressure are CRUCIAL, though, so you first and foremost need to manage these while warming up - pressure especially. There is no specific RPM or time to follow, because they'll depend on ambient temp outside. Just keep revving up so that oil pressure doesn't go too far beyond its redline and the temp gets closer to optimal range - as ManOWar mentioned, about 40-ish C should already be good enough. To make oil warmup faster close the oil cooler doors. Oil dilution switch should help a ton as well (judging from example of DCS Mustang, where it's very useful), BUT unless they fixed it in latest Open Beta patch, it never worked since P-47 module release... unfortunately.

 

 

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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1 hour ago, Art-J said:

Oil dilution switch should help a ton as well (judging from example of DCS Mustang, where it's very useful), BUT unless they fixed it in latest Open Beta patch, it never worked since P-47 module release... unfortunately.

Never tried myself, but I recall a P-47 video not long ago talking about engine management, and in cold weather (not really happening in Channel or Normandy maps usually unless we want to make it just harder to fly) oil dilution does work and you can notice a lowering in oil pressure (or was it a boost? I believe it was a drop, yes) as it should be with oil dilution. Or perhaps I dreamt of it, but I believe they guy in the video used oil dilution and there were a difference, just not a huge difference you notice a lot, but it was there.


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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OK, maybe it was fixed recently, I'll try to check it today.

Used to be broken (or just not implemented yet) for a long time, I made a dedicated thread about it in bugs section. If it works now, I'll certainly be happy.

EDIT - just tested, using time acceleration and onboard clock - nah, the diluter is still not functional. Bummer :/.


Edited by Art-J
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i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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Remember to rev engine on the ground 900-1000 and do not idle engine for longer times with throttle closed.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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4 hours ago, Art-J said:

EDIT - just tested, using time acceleration and onboard clock - nah, the diluter is still not functional. Bummer :/.

Ok, not that I need or use it anyway 😅 , but good to know. Probably it was something else I saw. Sorry it's not working as you expected.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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Oil dilution was done before engine shut down in cold months, so engine could be started next day. Oil dilution by fuel allow to drop oil pressure so engine can take full rpm at take off w/o exceeding max oil pressure limit, but this is last resort, engine does not like being lubricated by oil/fuel mix, it is quite erratic way of limiting oil pressure. The better way is just to keep high oil temp by electric heater, but i assume that electric out put of average ww2 airfield wasn't enough to perform such actions.

 

If i am concerned DCS should have build in pre-oil dilution, so when mission start with temps qualified for oil dilution, the plane should be diluted before start up.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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Hi, Doing a full run-up is the fastest, easiest  way to get the oil temp up, exercising the prop governor seems to make the biggest difference to me. dont exceed 30 in Manifold pressure or 2000 rpm.  ground ops and taxi should be done in Lean position,  to help avoid fouling spark plugs. Take off and  power levels above Min. cruise should be in auto Rich. It seems to me I heard somewhere that plug fouling is modeled. As far as oil dilution goes, that should have been done just before the last engine shutdown, if the temp was expected to be lower than 40 deg. F.

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^ All true in real life, but we're concentrating on how things work (or don't) in DCS, realism compromises and loopholes included. At this stage, oil dilution as modelled in P-51, even though not accurate indeed, would already be very useful in P-47 missions set for winter conditions.

There is no comprehensive source telling which of the planned engine simulation features have been implemented in -47 already and which haven't. Makes figuring out engine management a bit of a challenging experience. Trial and error seems to be the only way.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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The game P-47 take 13 minutes to heat up to the proper temp and at 900 rpm on takeoff do not just slam up full throttle and pitch hold brakes run up to top of blue  halfway down max out everything and slight push forward to keep on ground until at least 120 indicated.    I found this plane to be a difficult to take off in the beginning however continue to practice taking off until  you get it.   Remember this by the time you get to flying P-47 in the Front these fellows had like a 100 takeoff and landing.  Don't be too hard on yourself.

There are 2 categories of fighter pilots: those who have performed, and those who someday will perform, a magnificent defensive break turn toward a bug on the canopy. Robert Shaw

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hey guys.

thanks for all the help today I did the run up thing and let the plane idle for  a few minutes then put at 9000rpm to warm up further .  I finally got the p47 off the ground just like the ai , well kinda . lol 

finally got to do the 3rd mission in wolfpack and limped home after eating some flak . too bad I really suck at landings...lol

the glitching I'm getting in vr may be caused by the latest update by Oculus. as I started the mission and the flickering started right away and I exited and restarted and was able to do the mission with no flickering .  to bad I crashed while trying to land.lol

anyways will keep at it and see how it goes 

again thanks for all the help. 

Glenn.

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12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-12900K--32gigs ram--Gtx 3070--windows 11--Oculus Quest 2 VR--X-56 Hotas . DCS Openworld Beta

 

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