Losing enthusiasm with VR

[dooom]

Hey all,

I'm in need of a lift - or at least a little nudge as I have found myself losing my enthusiasm over VR the last few weeks.

It was only this spring that i finally broke down and built a new PC and picked up a Reverb G2 v2.  I have increasingly been finding myself disenchanted with VR and its implementation.

I'm currently sitting on a 5800x, 64 GB Ram, 6900XT (that i paid far toomuch for just prior to the price crash) and my G2.  I have installed OpenXR and the Toolkit and even read, viewed and researched the multitude of resources and suggestions around AMD and OXR/WMR

I just feel like I am spending faaar too much time fiddling around trying to get things smooth, clear and in my sweetspot.  Its more time fiddling than just enjoying the game.  I'm locked at 45 fps and still drop below that sometimes and feel like the learning curve is still so high that I'll never get optimized.

Then i look at the poor resolution in my G2 (compared to 4k on 2D and I just think... man with my rig I should just buy a 38" 4K monitor and go back to TrackIR.  I'm sure i could drive some pretty nice visuals in 2D.

Maybe VR isnt for me... how did the rest of you get over this funk?

Thanks for any suggestions....

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

11 minutes ago, dooom said:

Hey all,

I'm in need of a lift - or at least a little nudge as I have found myself losing my enthusiasm over VR the last few weeks.

It was only this spring that i finally broke down and built a new PC and picked up a Reverb G2 v2.  I have increasingly been finding myself disenchanted with VR and its implementation.

I'm currently sitting on a 5800x, 64 GB Ram, 6900XT (that i paid far toomuch for just prior to the price crash) and my G2.  I have installed OpenXR and the Toolkit and even read, viewed and researched the multitude of resources and suggestions around AMD and OXR/WMR

I just feel like I am spending faaar too much time fiddling around trying to get things smooth, clear and in my sweetspot.  Its more time fiddling than just enjoying the game.  I'm locked at 45 fps and still drop below that sometimes and feel like the learning curve is still so high that I'll never get optimized.

Then i look at the poor resolution in my G2 (compared to 4k on 2D and I just think... man with my rig I should just buy a 38" 4K monitor and go back to TrackIR.  I'm sure i could drive some pretty nice visuals in 2D.

Maybe VR isnt for me... how did the rest of you get over this funk?

Thanks for any suggestions....

How did I get over the funk?  Gave up. Haven’t even signed in in months. Continue to monitor this site in hopes of an announcement of big improvements 

Your mileage may vary

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I haven't flown that much either these past few months. I'm waiting for the engine improvements really: multicore and Vulkan...

[dburne]

I never cared much for going the Mod route with running DCS in Open XR with all the Toolkit adjustments one can make. I went back to just my regular Steam VR for my Aero and finding myself now spending all my time flying and having fun rather than tinkering with it. I just got it where it would at least maintain 45 fps and up, and for me it is a very enjoyable experience.  I spend on most days several hours a day in VR and absolutely love it. Been doing it for well over 5 years now and not got tired of it yet. For me it is all about the immersion of being in that plane or chopper and looking all around me and seeing the world like I am there. Everything full sized. 

Edit: I would add though everyone is different, and VR as exciting as it is, is not going to be for everybody. You gotta go with what makes you happy for your gaming time. One can sink a crap load of money into VR that is for sure.

Edited July 28, 2022 by dburne

[Svsmokey]

It is very easy to get distracted by VR tweaking , and i have been so in the past . Fortunately , i have found my sweet spot , and i now resist the urge to chase a small fps gain or graphics improvement , regardless of what i read on this forum , preferring to simply enjoy what i have .

I am looking forward to ED's engine improvements , particularly as they may enable greater LOD distances .

As to how to get past the performance issues , i simply run the G2 at 60hz native . The benefits are myriad , including much-enhanced graphics settings and super-smooth native hz with no artifacts at all times while in the air , and seamless motion-smoothing transitions when on the ground or Supercarrier .

Some report flickering at 60hz which my old eyes don't see , but even if one does , i would recommend trying it for a few flights to see if you acclimate , as the benefits are so substantial .

[WipeUout]

VR is all about immersion to the detriment of graphics quality, and it will remain like this forever.  2D takes half the quantity of pixel compared to 3D and it will always mean that VR will never match visual quality of 2D.  Right now I would say that VR can be enjoyable and a very smooth experience if you select the right hardware.  A top GPU, a lttle less resolution HMD and a powerfull single core performance CPU.

The next generation GPU will improve a lot our experience but if your expectations are to match 2D visuals, then you will expect for a long time.

There are tons of missions to fly and airframes to learn.  Try flying with a friend cooperatively or join a squadron, this might elevate your enjoyment quite a bit. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by WipeUout
Typo

[Phantom711]

I feel your pain but still vR is pretty awesome.

 

I run a AIO watercolled 3080 ti and still have to make quite some compromises with regards to visual quality.

You did the right thing by switching to OpenXR. The true beauty to me is, that it can perform motion reprojection below 45FPS. I also went chasing to maintain 30+ FPS, yanking and banking at 500KIAS low over the Mariannas....until I thought: WTF...when will I ever really fly like that in the actual game and came to peace with VR as it is. Now I enjoy just flying and trying out the different systems in the Hornet.

Maybe you should start to enjoy all those things, that are way easier with VR and the associated  sense of depth, like formation flying , air-to-air refuelling etc....

You (or "we") have spent so much money already...throw in another 30 bucks for Voice attack and VAICOM and the immersion is almost complete...

Edited July 28, 2022 by Phantom711

[sea2sky]

I hate the optics. Just think - there are beautiful sharp edge to edge displays behind them. And only because of these crappy optics we are able to enjoy only like 15% of that.

[Baldrick33]

VR and specifically VR once I got a Reverb G1 three years ago is what has got me into DCS. That maybe an advantage as I never got into the more complex and detailed missions. Having tried to use monitors and tracking a few times it simply doesn't work out for me so I am committed to using VR and compromise on the types of missions I use DCS for. Three years on and I am still pretty enthralled with it (having tried several other sims with arguably better performance).

I dabble a bit with the mission editor to create some pretty simple missions which make it easier with the limitations of both VR and my own ability and am pretty happy with VR in DCS. Or I use the lighter instant missions. Yes, it would be nice to be able to do more but I am still able to have a darn lot of fun with it right now.

 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

I could show you a printed 8K or 16K picture of Las Vegas Grand Canyon. Or I could hook you a cheap vr headset and launch VR Google Earth and teleport to the same spot of the pic taken, and you tell me what option makes you feel more "in there".

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

VR and specifically VR once I got a Reverb G1 three years ago is what has got me into DCS. That maybe an advantage as I never got into the more complex and detailed missions. Having tried to use monitors and tracking a few times it simply doesn't work out for me so I am committed to using VR and compromise on the types of missions I use DCS for. Three years on and I am still pretty enthralled with it (having tried several other sims with arguably better performance).

I dabble a bit with the mission editor to create some pretty simple missions which make it easier with the limitations of both VR and my own ability and am pretty happy with VR in DCS. Or I use the lighter instant missions. Yes, it would be nice to be able to do more but I am still able to have a darn lot of fun with it right now.

 

 

I am a single player only guy and have had and still have some great fun flying single player campaigns with the Hornet, and hopefully soon will be doing the same with the Apache as well. I get so engrossed and escape once I get into the campaigns I fly and it is extremely satisfying for me.  While yeah it certainly could be better I am pretty darn happy with it as it is now. And would look forward to any and all improvements to the experience. My biggest rush right now is flying campaigns off the Supercarrier with the Hornet. 

[Comante]

I have a much less powerful system than your's, but thanks to openXr I can enjoy a very good experience. I run DCS at native resolution (2150x2150) at 30 FPS (60Hz) on my G2 with just a 1060 and a i7 4790K . Yes I spent a lot of time fiddling and not flying, especially with SteamVR, THAT was simply AWFUL! With OpenXR I can read the MFD clearly without using upscaler or downscaler, I find the crispiness just good. OpenXr is supersmooth and I don't feel the need to tweak it anymore. What help me enjoy it without thinking to setups is multiplayer and "campaigns", probably if a dinamic campaign will be introduced in DCS, I would just spend my free time in it.
Another thing to consider is that... wow factor expire for everything, even for the real deal, you have to enjoy what you do for what it is, and not for the wow of the first time in VR.

[Chaos_Out]

I'd say there was probably a little ignorance on your part as to how the DCS VR experience would go, so you came into this with the wrong mindset.  If you look up anything about DCS VR settings, you'd find pages upon pages and loaded guides full of an abysmal amount of "tweaking" needed for things to be "right."  Was your research before or after you pulled the trigger on getting into DCS VR or was it, I have a headset now how do I set things up?  I knew this coming into it and expected the long period of trial and error to get the results I wanted.  I really wouldn't recommend DCS VR to anyone who wasn't tech savy enough or who just wanted a plug and play experience.

Since you're here though, let's get you where you need to be.  For starters, pick a goal that you'd like achieve and then find the route that gets you there.  Are you a constant 90 fps required no matter what settings kind of person, do you want more clarity and smoothness over fps, etc. etc.  Once you have a goal, it should help you feel a little more in control and on a path with a set mission instead of being lost in the sandbox now knowing where to go next.  For me, especially as I get older, I wanted 1. clarity and 2. smoothness aka stutter free when looking around.  This meant 90fps was out, but who cares if you can't even realize it when flying.  Installing openvr_fsr 2.0 and reshade 4.9.1 (I didn't like 5.1) was the game changer that finally allowed me to get what I wanted.   A higher Super-sampling (I started at 150% SS but think I settled on 120% but with MSAAx2 as I found they looked almost identical but with less dropped frames) and everything looks amazing.  Reprojection I think is on auto but I'm almost always locked around the 45 fps.  Only on busy airport SP mission starts can it get a little wonky.  I used the most demanding aircraft cockpits to tweak my settings (at the time the A-10C II, so when the AH-64D came out things were already dialed in).  Shader mods, as of late, haven't had that great of an impact on fps, so unless you need a couple ms of render time or whatever (haven't used fpsVR in forever so I don't remember the measurement names), then you could probably skip it for now.

I have a 5900x and 3090 and DCS VR still isn't perfect, but it's in a good spot for ME that I can really enjoy it for the things that I personally do.

Also, walking away from the game and taking a break can be a really good thing, sometimes even necessary.  I haven't played in a month or so but I'm getting the itch again to fly.  Only do it when you want to.  This is a game, and you're supposed to be having fun.  VR made things easier to do in-game for me (AA refuel and carrier landings) and the feeling of actually being in the cockpit vs looking on the screen is way too different now.  I personally don't even touch my trackIR/screen dcs gaming anymore because I only want to do it in VR.

TL:DR - take your time to get things dialed in, expect a lot of trial and error.  Once you get things in a good spot,  you'll absolutely love it.

Best of luck.  Don't give up.

[freehand]

Chaos_Out if replying to op he has been here for 12 years I think he knows the score  

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Chaos_Out said:

  I really wouldn't recommend DCS VR to anyone who wasn't tech savy enough or who just wanted a plug and play experience.

The trouble is, 99% of customers want exactly this. Most people don’t have a clue what the rest of your post means. They want to spend their time playing the game and not constantly tearing their hardware apart. Even with the strongest system money can buy. 

[Tomcat388th]

12 hours ago, Comante said:

I have a much less powerful system than your's, but thanks to openXr I can enjoy a very good experience. I run DCS at native resolution (2150x2150) at 30 FPS (60Hz) on my G2 with just a 1060 and a i7 4790K . Yes I spent a lot of time fiddling and not flying, especially with SteamVR, THAT was simply AWFUL! With OpenXR I can read the MFD clearly without using upscaler or downscaler, I find the crispiness just good. OpenXr is supersmooth and I don't feel the need to tweak it anymore. What help me enjoy it without thinking to setups is multiplayer and "campaigns", probably if a dinamic campaign will be introduced in DCS, I would just spend my free time in it.
Another thing to consider is that... wow factor expire for everything, even for the real deal, you have to enjoy what you do for what it is, and not for the wow of the first time in VR.

Low end rig here also with a 1070 and a quest 2 good cockpit and smooth fps sp and mp might get a small stutter here and there on MP but not enough to ruin  game play . Just now upgraded to a 3060 this week and a used reverb g2 which bumped up my fps. Was wanting the Gpu more than the G2 but the price was right 130 bucks just for the headset. Had everything setup in about a day of trial and error testing settings. If its running smooth and I can read the mfd's then I'm good to go.  I'm to the point i could care less what FPS are or if the gpu or cpu spiking up and down. I'm just enjoying the sim now

J  

[Baldrick33]

8 hours ago, Chaos_Out said:

I really wouldn't recommend DCS VR to anyone who wasn't tech savy enough or who just wanted a plug and play experience.

It really depends, the biggest issue IMHO are the variances in how VR works for people, so we end up with all different types of "perfect" settings.

Some like 60Hz to improve performance which introduces flickering that others can't stomach. Some dislike motion re-projection whilst for others it is an absolute necessity for smoothness otherwise it can cause nausea. For some the colours are too washed out and need add ons or want sharpening and there are a myriad of options and tools to fiddle with.

The problem is you won't know until you try, my settings are now remarkably vanilla.

My point is the "must have" tweaks aren't the case for everyone, and for many the out of the box VR device and DCS VR graphics profile settings will get them pretty much there. There are many add-ons and tweaks for monitor users it is just a nature of sims like DCS that people like to fiddle. VR adds some challenges due to the potential for nausea and immersion busting issues but that is a challenge for VR in general.

DCS pushes the limits somewhat due to demanding performance which can limit the player with complexity of missions but I see no reason why someone can't enjoy DCS in VR without recourse to spending days fiddling.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Baldrick33
Spelling

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

It really depends, the biggest issue IMHO are the variances in how VR works for people, so we end up with all different types of "perfect" settings.

Some like 60Hz to improve performance which introduces flickering that others can't stomach. Some dislike motion re-projection whilst for others it is an absolute necessity for smoothness otherwise it can cause nausea. For some the colours are too washed out and need add ons or want sharpening and there are a myriad of options and tools to fiddle with.

The problem is you won't know until you try, my settings are now remarkably vanilla.

My point is the "must have" tweaks aren't the case for everyone, and for many the out of the box VR device and DCS VR graphics profile settings will get them pretty much there. There are many add-ons and tweaks for monitor users it is just a nature of sims like DCS that people like to fiddle. VR adds some challenges due to the potential for nausea and immersion busting issues but that is a challenge for VR in general.

DCS pushes the limits somewhat due to demanding performance which can limit the player with complexity of missions but I see no reason why someone can't enjoy DCS in VR without recourse to spending days fiddling.

 

Yeah in all the history of flight simming on the PC, tweaking has always been up there in things to do to get the best experience. It is not relegated to only VR. I also had started going down the path of some of these "must have" tweaks/mods, and found that was not for me. Now I spend the vast majority of my time practically every day just flying and having a blast.

[eaglecash867]

I have been flying DCS almost exclusively in VR since the days of the Oculus Rift CV1 and DCS 1.5.  It took me a little while, experimenting with settings, mostly in DCS, to figure out what had the biggest impact on my individual experience.  I found that there were a lot of things that some consider "essential" that were performance killers, and honestly, I found that I didn't miss any of those things after turning them off/down.  Beyond that initial experimentation, and some occasional up-tweaking each time I built a new rig that could handle more, I haven't spent really any time on mods, tweaks, or chasing FPS dragons that the next guy said he was able to catch.  It is what it is, and I'm happy with it.  In my opinion, flying DCS on the pancake just doesn't do anything for me, no matter how much "better" things look.  I was on a LONG hiatus from DCS until VR came along and gave it new life.

[Steel Jaw]

On 7/28/2022 at 4:40 PM, Phantom711 said:

You did the right thing by switching to OpenXR.

I dont understand this:  do I still need to run the Oculus2 pc software?  I use the cable link so how could OpenXR work for me?

[Steel Jaw]

19 minutes ago, eaglecash867 said:

 In my opinion, flying DCS on the pancake just doesn't do anything for me, no matter how much "better" things look.

As a long-time TIR user, now VR, same for me.  2d you are doing the the sim, VR you are INSIDE the sim world.  Theres really no turning back.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

Well I gotta admit monitor is great for mission editor

[Glide]

I got VR working with Opencomposite.  I made the mistake of leaving DCS in VR mode, and then one day it just would not start.  I had to do a repair to get it to launch.  I'm hesitant to try it again.  2D is still fabulous.  The quality of 2D in DCS is a real achievement IMHO.  Easily the best performance on the market now.  If they day comes when VR is better than 2D I'll jump back in.

Edit: So I had to try again, and I just flew a mission over PG with vanilla settings, no OXRTK, PD 1.0, and it was flawless.  Still, 2D is something to be celebrated.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Glide
Update

[Digitalvole]

The constant battle to get better performance/visuals can suck all the fun out of DCS. I think a good approach is to get to a place where things are acceptable for you and then start a campaign (Liberation is my poison). Once you are actually flying missions it’s much easier to ignore the little niggles that drive you nuts when you’re testing different settings in a futile quest for perfection.

[Phantom711]

@Steel Jaw

It doesn‘t work with every headset and I don‘t know the specs of the Oculus. Does it even run via Windows Mixed Reality?