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why no remove pylons on HBF14?


CityBFM

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Not sure if this has already been asked. Undoubtedly it has many times, but if it has, the condition still persists so I will ask again.

Within mission editor, why is there no option to remove all pylons including glove pylons so F14 is completely slick/clean configuration? 

You may respond with "not realistic configuration as F14s were hardly ever(or never) completely clean" but mission editor has an option for F15, F16, F18(as far as I'm aware Mig29, Flanker, & M2KC also) to be configured with completely clean/slick configurations with no pylons even though I imagine that(with exception to jets assigned to aggressor units at training stations) unless they were the branch airframe airshow demo team jet fleet airframes almost always flew with pylons equipped.

Also one other thing when I looked in mission editor a few days ago, it seems that in the loadout page of mission editor, the fuel quantity slider goes to 20000+ lbs even if there are no drop tanks equipped compared to other modules where the fuel slider will only max out at full internal fuel quantity if no drop tanks are equipped. 


Edited by CityBFM
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As far as I'm aware, within mission editor, there is currently no option for me to remove glove pylons from HBF14.

I'm not sure if you can remove pylons on the ground in "arming/rearming/refueling" menu, but currently I don't fly in servers with missions where I use that menu for those functions.

In mission editor, there is certainly options to remove drop tank pylons and AIM-54 pallets, but as of last week (24/7/2022-30/7/2022) within mission editor there is no option for me to remove glove pylons.


Edited by CityBFM
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Probably because the museum jets they used for 3D scans didn't have their pylons off when they were scanned. And any rate, you are not wrong to supposed that the retort would be that fleet jets of the variants we have modeled didn't typically fly without their tanks. Nor is that retort unearned. But options are nice and foresight is always good to have.

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DCSF-14AOK3A.jpg

DCSF14AOK3B.png

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The HB tomcat has one of the best 3D models in the game, to be fair, we're just asking for a little more visual options. 

 

Iranian tomcats did not use the tanks and the pylons are removed too so maybe when HB releases early/Iranian versions of the cat they can include this feature! 

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By the time of the current presented Tomcats, A and B, the pylons and tanks generally stayed on. If you were on the boat, there were tanks. There's anywhere from 3-10 threads thrashing this to death already. If removable pylons happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it really doesn't impact anything but the IIAF/IRIAF and shore-based jets. Even by the mid 80s tanks pretty well stayed on.

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Not gonna comment on the fuel tank pylons other than that like mentioned they were basically only removed on the IRIAF jets and for airshows. Could happen eventually but not a high prio and not my call anyway.

As for the glove pylons those were in fact never removed for operational reasons as for as I know. The only photos available showing them not mounted are really early aircraft and the way those were attached to the aircraft it was almost as if asking for a tail plane to be removed. When the aircraft finally had them mounted they weren't designed to be detached on an operational basis, that's why all but the very early test and airshow photage show them still attached.


Edited by Naquaii
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2 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

Don't think anyone here are arguing that the fuel pylons couldn't be removed or that they weren't.

Fair enough, I know it's super minor but I absolutely love the look they have, just hoping we can replicate it in the sim one day. Development resources permitting. 

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2 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Fair enough, I know it's super minor but I absolutely love the look they have, just hoping we can replicate it in the sim one day. Development resources permitting. 

Yeah for sure.

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4 hours ago, CityBFM said:

Also one other thing when I looked in mission editor a few days ago, it seems that in the loadout page of mission editor, the fuel quantity slider goes to 20000+ lbs even if there are no drop tanks equipped compared to other modules where the fuel slider will only max out at full internal fuel quantity if no drop tanks are equipped. 

nullimage.png

I can not reproduce?

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to echo above,

the glove pylons were not removed usually at all, they were not meant to be removed and re-attached constantly, and were actually part of the aircraft's aerodynamic profile.

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2 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

By the time of the current presented Tomcats, A and B, the pylons and tanks generally stayed on. If you were on the boat, there were tanks. There's anywhere from 3-10 threads thrashing this to death already. If removable pylons happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it really doesn't impact anything but the IIAF/IRIAF and shore-based jets. Even by the mid 80s tanks pretty well stayed on.

Even if it never happened on real operational USN Tomcats, I wondered why the option wasn't available for the HBF14. You could probably say ~the same thing about USN legacy Hornets, rarely ever or never have pylons removed(which I assume are also part of F18's aero profile) and at least have 1 bag equipped on all sorties, yet I still 1v1 guns against light and slick F15s, F16s, F18s and occasionally the M2KC or the Flanker every session I fly 1v1 guns in public dogfight servers and the HB Tomcat is nothing anywhere near what it was prior to Augsut-November 2020 OB updates in a turn fight or energy retention/regeneration and I don't particularly enjoy getting my head caved in/losing 0-15 to Mirages, Flankers, F15s, F16s and especially F18s when I fly the F14B. 

I was just looking to see if there's anyway to decrease the disadvantage I have in the F14B based on the way it is in current build of OB and based on the admins of BFM servers seeming to want to put the F14s in their missions in a less than ideal configuration for 1v1 high aspect guns bfm relative to the other 4G contemporaries in the mission.


Edited by CityBFM
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15 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

Even if it never happened on real operational USN Tomcats, I wondered why the option wasn't available for HBF14. You could probably say ~the same thing about USN legacy Hornets, rarely ever or never have pylons removed and at least have 1 bag equipped on all sorties, yet I still 1v1 guns against light and slick F15s, F16s, F18s and occasionally the M2KC or the Flanker every session I fly 1v1 guns in public dogfight servers and the HB Tomcat is nothing anywhere near what it was prior to Augsut-November 2020 OB updates in a turn fight or energy retention/regeneration and I don't particularly enjoy getting my head caved in/losing 0-15 to Mirages, Flankers, F15s, F16s and especially F18s when I fly the F14B. 

I was just looking to see if there's anyway to decrease the disadvantage I have in the F14B based on the way it is in current build of OB and based on the admins of BFM servers seeming to want to put the F14s in their missions in a less than ideal configuration for 1v1 high aspect guns bfm relative to the other 4G contemporaries in the mission.

 

You're not going to win or lose a dogfight because fuel tank pylons are attached.

This is usually where our resident F-14 pilot and tester would and has said the same thing, repeatedly, in these forums.

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4 hours ago, CityBFM said:

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, how can you screw that up?

 

"wE're aLl hIgHly DetAil orIENtEd aeRoNauTicAL EnGiNEeRs MAkInG tHE MoSt ReAliStIC rEpREsenTatIoN Of ThE f14 ToMcAT EvEr..." then forget to model removing pylons that could be removed IRL and other contemporary 4G DCS modules, even FC3 crapcraft offer you the option should you want to enable it. 

 

the more I fly dcs, the more I just want to kill myself

 

 

" ... even FC3 crapcraft ... " 

Really ? One would think that respect for the work of others is due...

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11 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

You're not going to win or lose a dogfight because fuel tank pylons are attached.

This is usually where our resident F-14 pilot and tester would and has said the same thing, repeatedly, in these forums.

Do you have an idea of how much time he/her/they/them spends flying DCS 1v1 high aspect guns BFM on public multiplayer dogfight severs?


Edited by CityBFM
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No, because they were the actual F-14A pilot tuning the F-14 to fly like an F-14. That is what they spent their time doing in DCS.

It sounds like you need to go buy the F-16 if that's your primary drive and focus in life.

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21 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

No, because they were the actual F-14A pilot tuning the F-14 to fly like an F-14. That is what they spent their time doing in DCS.

It sounds like you need to go buy the F-16 if that's your primary drive and focus in life.

Are you're saying it would be statistically impossible for there to be any sort of "simism" or whatever the term is for something to happen in a public DCS multiplayer server where a major offering is high aspect 1v1 guns BFM that a pilot in real life would maybe never train for or possibly have limited experience with because of SOPs, regulations, etc that are at the very least highly optional in such a server?


Edited by CityBFM
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16 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

Are you're saying it would be statistically impossible for there to be any sort of "simism" or whatever the term is for something to happen in a public DCS multiplayer server where a major offering is high aspect 1v1 guns BFM that a pilot in real life would maybe never train for or possibly have limited experience with because of SOPs, regulations, etc that are at the very least highly optional in such a server?

 

 

What you're being informed of is that those pylons didn't come off operationally, ever, and that there is no aerodynamic data points to begin to attempt to model the drag change because the test aircraft were always flown with them installed. 

So not only are you chasing an immaterial point, but for one that could never be presented in a fashion you think would apply. 

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1 hour ago, CityBFM said:

Even if it never happened on real operational USN Tomcats, I wondered why the option wasn't available for the HBF14. You could probably say ~the same thing about USN legacy Hornets, rarely ever or never have pylons removed(which I assume are also part of F18's aero profile) and at least have 1 bag equipped on all sorties, yet I still 1v1 guns against light and slick F15s, F16s, F18s and occasionally the M2KC or the Flanker every session I fly 1v1 guns in public dogfight servers and the HB Tomcat is nothing anywhere near what it was prior to Augsut-November 2020 OB updates in a turn fight or energy retention/regeneration and I don't particularly enjoy getting my head caved in/losing 0-15 to Mirages, Flankers, F15s, F16s and especially F18s when I fly the F14B. 

I was just looking to see if there's anyway to decrease the disadvantage I have in the F14B based on the way it is in current build of OB and based on the admins of BFM servers seeming to want to put the F14s in their missions in a less than ideal configuration for 1v1 high aspect guns bfm relative to the other 4G contemporaries in the mission.

 

Hornet and Viper Pylons were constantly removed to reduce drag

1 hour ago, CityBFM said:

Do you have an idea of how much time he/her/they/them spends flying DCS 1v1 high aspect guns BFM on public multiplayer dogfight severs?

 

No, because they did it in real life,

How many hours do you have in a real F-14?

Losing 0-15 sounds like PEBKAC.

 

You're relatively new here, so I would suggest reading the rules and adjust.


Edited by SkateZilla
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1 hour ago, CityBFM said:

Are you're saying it would be statistically impossible for there to be any sort of "simism" or whatever the term is for something to happen in a public DCS multiplayer server where a major offering is high aspect 1v1 guns BFM that a pilot in real life would maybe never train for or possibly have limited experience with because of SOPs, regulations, etc that are at the very least highly optional in such a server?

 

Bruv they are 2 pieces of metal on the bottom of the nacelles. Its not that peak, I wish that we could remove them as an option but Heatblur mandem already made the model.

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It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

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