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why no remove pylons on HBF14?


CityBFM

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3 minutes ago, IronMike said:

It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

ye mate, totally understandable. Theyre just 2 pieces of aluminium. 


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3 minutes ago, IronMike said:

It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

Plus if they dropped them,, they likely would have run out of fuel before making it back to the boat.

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28 minutes ago, IronMike said:

It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

I'm not claiming to be an expert in any capacity. I'm just asking questions. I come to these forums to learn because the most reasonable informed intelligent fun to interact with people in the entire world are always on internet forums

28 minutes ago, IronMike said:

It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

some guy on the internet said it was an oversight and I took it and ran with it. so apologies for that. I was under the impression you could believe everyone and everything on the internet, which I also read on the internet. I guess maybe I need to reconsider that information.


Edited by CityBFM
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45 minutes ago, IronMike said:

It wasn't an oversight that we modeled the fuselage with the pylons or because we are too stupid to have foresight, lol.

It was more practical, looked better and there was no necessity due to the fact that outside of the rare occasion it simply wasn't a thing IRL. The drag penalty is utterly negligable, and if you think you are losing dogfights because of fuel pylons, let me break it to you: you are not. As a matter of fact, IRL Tomcats did not even drop their tanks, because you would fly pretty much without tanks for the rest of your cruise, as there were little to no replacements. And if you think that what you call high performance BFM beats what real pilots do irl, you need a reality check of the other kind, sorry to put it that bluntly. Particularly I suggest to look up Dunning Kruger in that case. And if you want to pretend that you are even remotely close to them, at the very least fight your high performance BFM with tanks on, and no flaps or other mumbojumbo shenanigans.  

In hindsight, which is always 20/20, we should have made them removable and made it solely to accommodate the IRIAF version, which at the time of modeling the Tomcat was not planned at all, not even an afterthought.

It was the community who asked for it, and we obliged happily, with the caveat that the fuel pylons are not removable. Until we are willing to re-do a massive part or almost the entire fuselage, so that a handful of guys can be happy vs the majority that simply does not care, with months of manhours going into it, you will, pardon my English, simply have to deal with it.

Forgive me if I sound abit harsh, but usually I would not respond to stuff like "wanting to kill yourself" at all. We're really happy to talk on eye level with everyone, but you gotta come down a notch for it please.
 

Clearly I'm not claiming to be an expert based on a previous comment I posted, as previously stated I'm now atrocious ghastly terrible at 1v1 guns bfm in the F14B where I was formerly less terrible before. I'm just trying to piece it all back together and figure out where the schism occurred and how to remedy it.

24 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

some guy on the internet said it was an oversight and I took it and ran with it.

FRFR about the same amount of research and validation goes into national network news stories. I was just acting based on the current standards


Edited by CityBFM
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Hey you know I guess the entire seemingly sizeable population of Tomcat tribalists adamant about the F14 being superior to its contemporaries and successors in nearly every or every capacity/metric/function completely vaporized into thin air and I should just pound sand and go fly the Viper though...


Edited by CityBFM
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17 minutes ago, near_blind said:

Or just, you know, git gud.

how daddy?

plz make series of youtube tutorials esplain how to do so

Please make a 10 ep YT series titled:

"How to win 100% of your 1v1 high aspect guns only BFM engagements in public DCS multiplayer dogfight servers in the Heatblur F14A & F14B Tomcat versus anyone in any module just like near_blind does for mentally and intellectually disabled people named CityBFM"


Edited by CityBFM
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21 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

Hey you know I guess the entire seemingly sizeable population of Tomcat tribalists adamant about the F14 being superior to its contemporaries and successors in nearly every or every capacity/metric/function completely vaporized into thin air and I should just pound sand and go fly the Viper though...

You thought it came down to a couple of pylons that don't affect drag one iota; you also begin with the false premise that everything has been somehow nerfed with a patch previously, so in sum- your childish hyperbole isn't doing much to make your case for you.  

And I hate to tell you- as has been exhibited by others, repeatedly, the F-14, in both types, run as close to their subsonic EM charts as any other module in DCS, if not closer.  That is- the model is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.  It was fractionally ahead or behind the curves in prior patches, and remains so- down to single digit values in net Ps change in the regime you state you care the most about, irrespective of the comments of people who think they can magically ascertain other regions and substantiate nonexistent tests by extrapolation.  Your inability to deliver isn't indicative of the FM or the module.  

Now, you can blame that on your own skill, the track record of other types having larger variances from their EMs (or simply being authored without them), or whatever you like to explain it.  The fact of the matter is that you've got 13 posts since you opened your newest profile, and the point that 10 of them are in here just tossing pure unadulterated noise about factors that in no way deny you from being capable of winning guns only, give ready explanation as to why you can't. 

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2 minutes ago, lunaticfringe said:

Now, you can blame that on your own skill, the track record of other types having larger variances from their EMs (or simply being authored without them), or whatever you like to explain it.  

As hard as this is to users here to comprehend, I actually have considered that I'm just absolute trash at 1v1 guns BFM. I usually do for hours or days following every session of 1v1 guns BFM I fly in multiplayer. So that's entirely a possibility. 

If developers of other modules are making wild speculations and projections about areas of their flight models no one knows anything about, where is the "scholarly scientific discourse and lobbing of citations from various sources of official documentation" refuting the claims of their accuracy or just lots of screaming, crying, and gnashing of teeth about it?

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My suggestion at this point is to simply take a step back, take a breath, calm a bit, then come back with an open mind. When one's tumbling while standing, the easiest way to catch yourself is to realize you are not falling at all.

We all start somewhere. We all get somewhere. Some further, some less, some go different places. But no one starts at the finish.

If you are indeed still learning the internet, to take the sarcasm at face value, the best way to learn it is to drop the sarcasm and realize that you arrived at a place where ppl mean genuinely well towards you. It is impossible to know at a glance in such a complex subject what is all true and what isn't. Time will teach you that. Now is a good time though to get to know the folks around you, who have been at it for much longer and who have the kind of knowledge you seek. If your questions and interest are genuine, I can assure you, so will be their answers. But if you dance around their noses, don't be surprised if they wave you off like a fly that tickles their itch. 🙂

Talent is in the choice, dear friend, so my kind suggestion is to channel your curiosity in the right questions that have sincerety behind them. You will be surprised what this community will offer you in return if you give it a chance. 😉

Welcome to the club.

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4 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

If developers of other modules are making wild speculations and projections about areas of their flight models no one knows anything about, where is the "scholarly scientific discourse and lobbing of citations from various sources of official documentation" refuting the claims of their accuracy or just lots of screaming, crying, and gnashing of teeth about it?

 

The Hornet and Viper have had their discrepancies discussed in their subforums and in other venues.  You want wailing and gnashing of teeth on those subjects, look there. 

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48 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

As hard as this is to users here to comprehend, I actually have considered that I'm just absolute trash at 1v1 guns BFM. I usually do for hours or days following every session of 1v1 guns BFM I fly in multiplayer. So that's entirely a possibility.

There's a lot of, "This is dumbfounding. I don't ever recall losing this much this quickly and overall just being this bad..."


Edited by CityBFM
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52 minutes ago, IronMike said:

My suggestion at this point is to simply take a step back, take a breath, calm a bit, then come back with an open mind. When one's tumbling while standing, the easiest way to catch yourself is to realize you are not falling at all.

We all start somewhere. We all get somewhere. Some further, some less, some go different places. But no one starts at the finish.

If you are indeed still learning the internet, to take the sarcasm at face value, the best way to learn it is to drop the sarcasm and realize that you arrived at a place where ppl mean genuinely well towards you. It is impossible to know at a glance in such a complex subject what is all true and what isn't. Time will teach you that. Now is a good time though to get to know the folks around you, who have been at it for much longer and who have the kind of knowledge you seek. If your questions and interest are genuine, I can assure you, so will be their answers. But if you dance around their noses, don't be surprised if they wave you off like a fly that tickles their itch. 🙂

Talent is in the choice, dear friend, so my kind suggestion is to channel your curiosity in the right questions that have sincerety behind them. You will be surprised what this community will offer you in return if you give it a chance. 😉

Welcome to the club.

There's a lot of sensei-isms to unpack here

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23 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

There's a lot of, "This is dumbfounding. I don't ever recall losing this much this quickly and overall just being this bad for so many consecutive separate sessions in a row..."

 

Then I spend the night laying awake in bed trying to think of all the reasons for this to be the case now when it seemed less so before.
Usually my major suspicions are:

1. I just suck more now

2. some aspect of (a) flight model(s) have changed that I completely missed the boat on

3. "house always wins" as far as the server/mission/admins

4. some kind of improbable(not impossible to rule out) "the world is conspiring against me" theory

5. all of the above


Edited by CityBFM
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1 hour ago, CityBFM said:

how daddy?

plz make series of youtube tutorials esplain how to do so

Please make a 10 ep YT series titled:

"How to win 100% of your 1v1 high aspect guns only BFM engagements in public DCS multiplayer dogfight servers in the Heatblur F14A & F14B Tomcat versus anyone in any module just like near_blind does for mentally and intellectually disabled people named CityBFM"

 

You're quickly going in the wrong direction on this forum.....

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This is the hottest dumpster fire in the F-14 subforum that I’ve seen in months.

-Tinkerer, Certified F-14 and AIM-54 Nut | Discord: @dsplayer

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6 minutes ago, DSplayer said:

This is the hottest dumpster fire in the F-14 subforum that I’ve seen in months.

glad you're having a good time. welcome to the party. thanks for pointing this out. appreciate the feedback. all constructive criticism (or just outright personal attacks) are welcomed


Edited by CityBFM
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2 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

how was I supposed to react to a reply like "or you could just git gud"

By all means You cannot explain the content of your posts before that one, so don't use that one as an Excuse.

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8 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

By all means You cannot explain the content of your posts before that one, so don't use that one as an Excuse.

sorry man. I'm stupid garbage. I lack the vulcan logic and 1 million IQ like everyone else here. I just want to know how to not be trash at 1v1 guns BFM in the F14B again and stop losing in less than 60 seconds every single fight no matter what I do like I do now every session I fly then the having to cope with the self loathing of being so bad at something I used to think I was alright at (even though in reality I was maybe okay-ish at on my best day in the best/META module)


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8 minutes ago, DSplayer said:

This is the hottest dumpster fire in the F-14 subforum that I’ve seen in months.

There has been a certain void left by CSGO, now that you mention it. 

 

10 minutes ago, CityBFM said:

how was I supposed to react to a reply like "or you could just git gud"

My bad. Your problem seems to be you're getting killed. May I be so bold as to suggest killing the other guys before that comes to pass? I've been told by reliable sources that spinning turning is a good trick. Just don't turn too hard. That'd be silly. 

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5 minutes ago, near_blind said:

My bad. Your problem seems to be you're getting killed. May I be so bold as to suggest killing the other guys before that comes to pass? I've been told by reliable sources that spinning turning is a good trick. Just don't turn too hard. That'd be silly. 

What an insight.

Have you considered becoming a instructor at red flag? There's so much dense actionable profound information here.


Edited by CityBFM
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How does the following make you better at guns only in the F-14B?:
-Blaming the developer,
-Asking for a feature that isnt realistic,
-Degrading the developers, and community members that also stated the same information

It doesn't.
So as stated hours ago, You might want to read the rules and adjust.

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3 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

How does the following make you better at guns only in the F-14B?:
-Blaming the developer,
-Asking for a feature that isnt realistic,
-Degrading the developers, and community members that also stated the same information

It doesn't.
So as stated hours ago, You might want to read the rules and adjust.

I was just asking questions. and again, I'm clearly not socially or intellectually developed enough to operate on the elite level of everyone else here or carry on any kind of discussion about anything 


Edited by CityBFM
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