Buy or Build PC for VR (UK)

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Saving up for year end, I am beginning my research on a new PC, here are some of my basic ideas:

• i9 CPU
• 64GB RAM
• 2TB SSD

As for GPU, I am waiting for RTX 30xx to fall off the cliff when RTX 40xx arrives, so I may get a (used?) 3090 or 3090TI

Assume that I am getting one from scratch, should I buy one (I am not talking about Dell, HP, etc), or should I DIY?

Also, I am aware that there are a lot of other stuffs to consider. What else should I note for, say cooling, power supply, etc? Your advise and input are very much appreciated.

Edited July 31, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Mr_sukebe]

Are you happy to build yourself?

Personally, I started with a build by OCUK (who build my previous PC), then tweaked the spec in agreement with them.

My newest PC is three years old, with never an issue.  Previous PC from OCUK is using an i5 2500, so must be 10 years, still working for my son, although nearly everything inside has been updated along the way.

[AngleOff66]

Look into cooling for the 12th gen series. 

Contact frame/bracket.

There is the cheap one reviewed here and the more expensive one by thermal grizzly.

You can see how carefully they install the bracket.  I think I remember that temps dropped about 7-8 degrees which may or may not be worth it to you.

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by NoCoolName66

[72Stu]

6 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Saving up for year end, I am beginning my research on a new PC, here are some of my basic ideas:

• i9 CPU
• 64GB RAM
• 2TB SSD

As for GPU, I am waiting for RTX 30xx to fall off the cliff when RTX 40xx arrives, so I may get a (used?) 3090 or 3090TI

Assume that I am getting one from scratch, should I buy one (I am not talking about Dell, HP, etc), or should I DIY?

Also, I am aware that there are a lot of other stuffs to consider. What else should I note for, say cooling, power supply, etc? Your advise and input are very much appreciated.

 

I5 12600 will suffice, 64GB of DDR4 (or go 32GB if not multiplayer). Get a 500 GB SSD for Windoze alone, plus the 2TB for games (keep them separate). 

DO NOT buy a 3090. A 3080 is more than enough! As for the mobo, what size are you looking for? I got shoehorned into DDR5 RAM, building a SFF PC on 12th gen intel, with a micro case. 

As for the bracket, I play VR Skyrim, HL Alyx, DCS with zero heat issues as my system stands.

Edited July 31, 2022 by 72Stu

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks all.

To clarify,

• In VR, I really want to fully push my Quest2 to the max settings without ghosting at least 45 fps all the time. Currently, I am having a laptop RTX 3080 (more or less equivalent to RTX 2080) and it gives me a good frame rate at a reduced resolution with ghosting.
• I have no idea what to get, I have build one, almost 2 decades ago so I am seriously out-of-touch, especially in the cooling department. So, may be a pre-built rig be better
• So, I am thinking if you can recommend what things to get
• Also, I would prefer components not giving out too much light
• I am using a 11th Gen i7 at 2.3GHz, I am not very convinced to go to i5, and as many of you would say, I build a rig to run for at least 3 years.

I am taking a look at OCUK site and as expected, I am overwhelmed. Please kindly keep your suggestions coming

Edited July 31, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

More question: should I put Win in a SATA SSD and DCS on a M2 drive?  Thanks in advanced.

[Bossco82]

If you are going to buy one over an own build. Contact Scan UK or Overclockers UK, both are very capable and reputable.

I have built my own for over 20 years, but if I needed one built I would go to one of these guys.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bossco82

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks guys. I guess I am not building myself, but instead picking up different components and ask shop to build it for me. I have done a little shopping yesterday and it is still on the pricey side. I am saving up for later November or when RTX-40xx comes out.

I think I am going to sort out a list of stuff I need to ask, later.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

16 hours ago, 72Stu said:

5 12600 will suffice, 64GB of DDR4 (or go 32GB if not multiplayer). Get a 500 GB SSD for Windoze alone, plus the 2TB for games (keep them separate).

I watch some videos and look into some materials and yes, 12th Get i5-12600K seems to be a good choice, half the price, less heat, almost as fast as i7 for most gaming needs as currently and for the fore-seeable future -- DCS will be single-core more or less.

[Bossco82]

I was running DCS at 4k resolution in multiplayer at a solid 60fps on high settings. Thats flying high and down low, it makes a difference. Running a 5600x and a 3090. When you increase the resolution or go VR. You need an Nvidia 3080 or better to get a solid framerate on high settings. 

The CPU, does not matter so much as long as the memory controller is good enough to handle 64gb. Which almost all can nowadays. A 12600k on a DDR4 motherboard would be fine, then pump your funds into a GPU and power supply that can support it. 

If I was building a PC for DCS tomorrow it would be 12600k or AMD 5800x, 64gb DDR4 and a 3080 or better.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Thanks.

So, here is the partial list, based on your recommendations, with a lot of questions:

• CPU: 12th Gen i5-12600K
• RAM: 32GB DDR5 -- speed? brand? (I check with Scan and find that DDR5 price is very competitive)
• GPU: RTX-3090 Ti 24GB -- brand? OC? DDR6?
• MoBo: Z690 DDR5, brand? model?
• Case?
• Air cool or liquid cool?
• SSD for Win, 500GB or 1TB? brand? model?
• M2 for DCS, 1TB / 2TB? brand? model?
• Anything else I missed?

Thanks again, everyone.

[Mr_sukebe]

Go for 64GB of RAM.  Even if you don’t need it now, chances are that you will soon. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Okay, it wold add additional 15% to the final price. Any specification you would recommend also?

[AngleOff66]

I stand to be corrected, and it likely isnt that important these days but dont motherboards have QVL ? Qualified Vendor lists of ram etc that was tested with the MB?  Again I could be wrong, likely am, but look into Z690 board, see what they  tested if any.  Should be on the MB makers site.

[Bossco82]

HI mate,

If your going with Scan UK you are in good hands, they really do know what they are doing. I recently had to do a Corsair RMA through them and they were like lightning with it.

Cooling a decent Air or 240mm AIO

Case your choice, its aesthetic, if Scan say it will do the job it will. Just get one that lets air in!

I would go with 2x 1tb Nvme ssd's on the Z690 M2 slots. One for Windows and a Steam folder, the other solely for DCS. Gen 3 vs Gen 4 doesn't matter I tested it a lot makes no difference to DCS load times or performance. I have Window on a gen4 and DCS on a gen3. It runs super smooth.

Motherboard I usually go with MSI simply for the USB's at the back IO, they offer more than Asus.

I dont know about DDR5 speed or latencies really. I would shoot for the middle and go Corsair if it was me. My recent Corsair RMA was for a failed led light!

[72Stu]

Are you sure DDR5 pricing is competitive? DDR4 will be ok for the foreseeable, could save you $$$.

The rest looks great.

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, 72Stu said:

Are you sure DDR5 pricing is competitive? DDR4 will be ok for the foreseeable, could save you $$$.
 

Good call. DDR5 pricing got better but isn't competitive yet.

The big latency with DDR5 and the excessive pricing on the 64GB quality kits (5600 MHz+) makes it a bit of a non-choice, when you can still find DDR4 3600 CL16 kits with same (when not better) performance for less money.
Hence, a Z690 DDR4 motherboard and fast low latency DDR4 memory is still best combo for a pure PC gaming machine, if based on Intel 12th gen.

Personally, I think I'd go:

• Intel i7 12700K (or i5 12600K, as more affordable alternative)
• MSI MAG Z690 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 (or MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4, as more affordable alternative)
• 64GB DDR4 3600 CL16 (either 16-16-16-36 or 16-18-18-38)

If not going to overclock, a top performance air-cooler is the better choice (IMO), simplest most reliable and less expensive (than an AIO). In this case, I recommend the Scythe Fuma 2 Rev.B (compatib.w/ LGA1700), as it performs the same as Noctua NH-D15 (aka the best) for less money (~70€).
If overclocking, and/or deciding on liquid-cooling AIO aproach, there are many to choose but I'd take a look at latest revision (compatib.w/ LGA1700) of the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 or 360 (non-RGB). Simplest non-fussy design I've seen in AIOs, the performance is excelent and the price is good (~140€).

I haven't seen mentions on the power supply. You'll want a 1000W PSU (or higher) for that RTX3090Ti.
There are some good quality and very reasonably priced 1000W 80+Gold PSUs worth looking for. For example, and among others, check the Corsair RMx 1000w, EVGA SuperNOVA GT (or G6) 1000w, Seasonic Prime (Gold) GX1000 and SuperFlower Leadex (Gold) 1000w.
If price isn't a problem, then you may be interested in a 1000W+ Platinum rated PSU instead.

Lastly, I know SCAN.UK is very well rated but, as I see it (just checked minutes ago), they have a big problem which is an extremely limited variety of RAM and coolers, and it's really biased towards Corsair branding (not really the best for pricing).

Edited August 3, 2022 by LucShep

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Scan UK has very limited choice of MoBo if you get "package" from them -- which are all Asus...If you wish to choose other brands and/or models, you need to get from their component department and requires approval before they can include them in the build.

I plan to go overclocking, but I have no experience with that.

As for "competitiveness" of DDR5, when I shop around, when other components are more or less the same, the final price, sans the GPU, DDR5 does not cost very much more than DDR4. Of course I have no data that the current generation of MoBo actually support DDR5 better. And probably the MoBo is the last thing you wish to change, in the long run.

Thanks and keep them coming.

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Scan UK has very limited choice of MoBo if you get "package" from them -- which are all Asus...If you wish to choose other brands and/or models, you need to get from their component department and requires approval before they can include them in the build.

I plan to go overclocking, but I have no experience with that.

As for "competitiveness" of DDR5, when I shop around, when other components are more or less the same, the final price, sans the GPU, DDR5 does not cost very much more than DDR4. Of course I have no data that the current generation of MoBo actually support DDR5 better. And probably the MoBo is the last thing you wish to change, in the long run.

Thanks and keep them coming.

AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "bad" Z690 motherboard, be it models for DDR4 or for DDR5. Even the cheapest ones are good quality (good VRMs, layout, etc) and capable of OC'ing (even an i9 12900K, which BTW is total overkill and utterly overpriced for DCS and any other sim/game).
Brand, warranty, customer support, form factor (ATX vs mATX), the I/O (USB ports, wifi, etc), the M.2 and SATA slots/lanes numbers, heat spreaders size, also "bling-bling" (or lake of), and if it's for DDR4 or DDR5 RAM (of course), are the main factors you have to deal with when chosing a Z690 motherboard then, and its respective price.
As to say, you can buy any Z690 with confidence. I definitely recommend MSI above all (I'm biased), but ASUS is likewise really good, just priced higher.

DDR5 vs DDR4, price is only one factor. Even if same price, other things are involved to be considered, namely latency. With DDR5 latency is huge if compared to DDR4, which is snappier. Yes, the RAM speed is much higher in DDR5 than DDR4 (preferable for "PRO" applications), but then there are no noticeable gains above 3600MHz for any game (that I know of), not even with the most demanding hardcore ones (like DCS).
So, a balance of high speed (+/- 3600Mhz) and as low latency as possible (CL14 is excelent, CL18 at most at such speeds) is largely prefered, and only DDR4 provides this combination at this point - it's said that even future Z790 will keep support for DDR4 with compatible models.
Might be diferent in the UK (and in SCAN) but, where I live DDR5 is still 10% to 50% more expensive than DDR4, so it's a no brainer for the good 64GB kits.

FWIW, a few writen articles and videos comparing DDR4 vs DDR5:

• https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-12900k-alder-lake-ddr4-vs-ddr5/
   
• https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/ddr4-vs-ddr5-intel-core-i9-12900k-testing/
   
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wQ9MGrTvwc&t=316s
   
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRvo__2taug&t=407s
   
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIN8lLhSqmg&t=1058s

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by LucShep

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Hope I do not de-generate this thread into Scan UK vs OCUK, I try to match the config as much as I do:

Scan UK setup

Fractal Design Torrent Compact [Black with Light Tint - RGB]
ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI
Intel Core i7 12700K, Alder Lake, 12 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.6GHz Base, 4.9GHz Turbo
Corsair Hydro H150i RGB PRO XT - 360mm Liquid Cooler
32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR5 5600MHz CAS36 [Black ]
12GB EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 ULTRA, 10240 Cores, 1800MHz Boost, GDDR6X
Corsair RM1000x, Modular, Silent, 80PLUS GOLD - up to RTX 3090 Ti
1TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe PCIe 4.0, 7000MB/s Read, 5000MB/s Write, 1000K IOPS
1TB Samsung 870 EVO, Read 560MB/s, Write 530MB/s, 98K IOPS
Win11 Home

Price: £3,142.85 (incl. VAT)

OCUK Setup

Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Midi-Tower - Black Window
INTEL CORE I7-12700KF 3.60GHz Socket LGA1700 - TRAY
Lian-Li GALAHAD AIO 360mm High Performance RGB CPU Water Cooler - Black
MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk WIFI DDR4 - Intel Z690 DDR4 ATX Motherboard 
Kingston HyperX Fury Beast RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C18 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit
GIGABYTE GEFORCE RTX 3080 Ti GAMING OC 12GB GDDR6X GRAPHICS CARD
Samsung 980 Pro 1TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 x4 NVMe Solid State Drive
Samsung 1TB 870 QVO SSD 2.5" SATA 6Gbps 64 Layer 3D V-NAND Solid State Drive (MZ-77Q1T0BW)
Kolink Continuum 850W 80 Plus Platinum Modular Power Supply
Microsoft Windows 11 Home 64-Bit DVD - OEM (KW9-00632)

Price £3,190.81 (incl. VAT)

Note about OC:

• I can't have no GPU,  
• they charge Asus ROG MoBo even higher
• it does not offer any 3090, and
• they do not offer any air-cooled solution

I dunno which one of them over-charge or some DDR5 is really that "competitive".

Still over-budget.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Mr_sukebe]

Just to add, my build from OCUK was "negotiated", i.e. I started with a base package, then changed quite a number of components and omitted the GPU (as I already had one to hand).

 

Don't get me wrong, not trying to say they're better than Scan (who I've also bought from), just saying that that are happy to discuss personal requirements.

[Bossco82]

I know for a fact, a small phone call to Scan or Overclockers UK and those guys will put whatever you want together. You can have any motherboard you want fitted. Just need to give them a phone call or email.

[BitMaster]

You should really consider 64GB from Day 1 on. You will definitely regret it if you don't I dare to say.

Then, I would not look at DDR5, it's still not equal in performance and also price to DDR4 kits with good specs ( 3200-3600MHz, CL14 - CL16 ).

The money you save on DDR4 will easily buy you the 64GB kit. Make sure you get a 4x16GB kit as only those have the timings you want at said speed.

The kits with 2x32GB are non-"B-Die" and are also really good...at speeds above 4xxxMHz when they can overcome the Latency penalty. Up to that point,

 B-die rules them all.

 

DDR5-6400...what they want you to buy for a heck of money is still the very bottom of where DDR5 starts to make sense. Once they pass the 10k-MHz barrier with modest prices we shall evaluate again.

[72Stu]

OK, this has transcended into the usual confusing mess.

IDK about Scan or Overclockers, it doesn't matter. Buy this stuff from a good retailer and build yourself, it's soo easy to do.

So:

64GB or DDR4 memory - latency depends on your CPU choice. 3200..?

Intel 12600 (non K, no need to OC a 12th gen CPU)! 

Non Z690 mobo (see above).

3080 12GB ram (non Ti).

850 Gold PSU will suffice.

240mm CPU water cooling solution will be plenty.

500 gb SSD for Windoze.

2TB Nvme for games

Case of your choice. 

This will run DCS in VR beautifully, and will do you for 5 years, until you're ready to upgrade to a 7090 ti in 2027.  

 

[LucShep]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:34 PM, 72Stu said:

OK, this has transcended into the usual confusing mess.

IDK about Scan or Overclockers, it doesn't matter. Buy this stuff from a good retailer and build yourself, it's soo easy to do.

So:

64GB or DDR4 memory - latency depends on your CPU choice. 3200..?

Intel 12600 (non K, no need to OC a 12th gen CPU)! 

Non Z690 mobo (see above).

3080 12GB ram (non Ti).

850 Gold PSU will suffice.

240mm CPU water cooling solution will be plenty.

500 gb SSD for Windoze.

2TB Nvme for games

Case of your choice. 

This will run DCS in VR beautifully, and will do you for 5 years, until you're ready to upgrade to a 7090 ti in 2027.  

 

Agreed, that also looks good, and is a good alternative (bit more affordable) if not into overclocking.