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Can we get rid of the radar?

Rongor

By Rongor
in DCS: Mirage F1

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Rongor

Rongor

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...


Edited by Rongor
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sedenion

sedenion

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...

For once, I found the radar performances pretty decent... the visual render may need a little love (the green appear a bit artifical, analogical display a little "too perfect", but these are details). I don't know the performances of the real Cyrano IV, but I think indeed you should not expect outstanding performances...

It is able to lock a target at ~30 nm, IF you look up in the sky, if you look to the ground, this become harder.  If you set the scanning mode to BPZ TEL (the little switch very well hidden on the left wall, "Telemeter/zone scanning switch" in controls) you should be able to lock (automatically) anything in visual range in front of you. (Why the hell enginers placed this switch at this odd place ?)


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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

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Posted
59 minutes ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...

 

Please keep the feedback constructive, I would suggest you add a track replay showing an example, maybe the other F1 guys can give you some pointers. 

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some1

some1

Posted
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34 minutes ago, sedenion said:

If you set the scanning mode to BPZ (the little switch very well hidden on the left wall, "Telemeter/zone scanning switch" in controls) you should be able to lock (automatically) anything in visual range in front of you. (Why the hell enginers placed this switch at this odd place ?)

It's because it's conveniently located next to the pilot's hand resting on the throttle. Dogfight switch in the F-14 is in a similar location.  

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Cab

Cab

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, sedenion said:

Why the hell enginers placed this switch at this odd place ?

These days we take the HOTAS concept for granted, but it wasn't always a thing. If I remember correctly, the first jet that really made use of it was the F-15.

For its day the Mirage F1 designers and pilots probably thought the placement of that switch was a pretty good solution.

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joey45

joey45

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...

 

Welcome to the early 70's sir...

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Rhinozherous

Rhinozherous

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...

 

Fly F18 if you want a full fletched out radar... 

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Tango3B

Tango3B

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, joey45 said:

Welcome to the early 70's sir...

Indeed, Joey45. And when you consider the age of the Cyrano IV radar and the fact that France was a little bit behind the US at that time when it comes to more sophisticated radar thechnology I think France actually fitted the F1 with quite a capable package. The Cyrano can do a lot of things surprisingly well. That said, the Cyrano IV is actually quite decent in DCS and I have absolutely zero problems finding targets with it. Why? Because I know exactly what it can do and what it cannot do. I think, people need to understand that the F1 is no F16. Also, people need to understand that radar technology from the 60s or 70s has very severe limitations concerning its overall capabilities but once you know how to handle this technology it can actually perform very well in the right hands. And it does in DCS, too. If you fly on a certain Cold War server where everyone and his mother is flying treetop level just do not expect this radar to perform well. It just will not do that for you and this is totally realistic. Sure, AERGES still has some work to do on the Cyrano but this radar is absolutely usable and far from being crappy. And there is an old saying. Practice makes perfect, right? 😉🤙


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NakedSquirrel

NakedSquirrel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Baaz said:

Can I request the Mirage F1's radar be used to upgrade the F-5's?

I mean, compared to the F-5's, this radar is gold.

 

I think for that, you would have to get a time machine and convince Northrop that the F-5 ought to be developed with a better radar system in mind.  🙃

The primary purpose of the F5 radar is for guns and sidewinders. It isn't BVR capable and can't even guide Aim-7 Sparrows.

 

The F1 has a reasonably good radar.  The range on the Cyrano IV is more than double that of the Sapfir in the Mig21,  but the Mig21 is a small target, even the modern jets like the f16 have difficulty picking them out at distance.

 

The Cyrano has look down capability, but that doesn't mean it's good at it.  PD Radars have an easier time finding targets against an empty sky than they do in ground clutter.  The mig21 is a smart design in that it doesn't let you point the radar dish down, probably with the idea that it wouldn't be able to distinguish contacts below you even if it could point down, so you're forced to search for targets above you.  

 

Also remember that TL mode is limited to ~7km, so you'll have to be pretty close to get a lock.

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Breakaway

Breakaway

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar I saw in any of my DCS module so far. I can't even detect a MiG21 which is in visual range ahead of my nose. It's basically blind.

Can we get rid of it to enjoy a lighter aircraft This way we then maybe can at least make flying this brick a bit more enjoyable...

 

Speak for yourself, I've had no issues, and the fact you call this bird a brick makes me question your pilot abilities.

Maybe ask for help instead of blurting childish posts

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Rudel_chw

Rudel_chw

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Rongor said:

This is the crappiest radar …


Why did you purchased a 70’s aircraft instead of an F-16 or F-18 ? … what were you expecting?

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felixx75

felixx75

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, IvanK said:

The F1 manual states that TL mode scans from 400m to 6nm and locks on to the first target detected..... its basically a Boresight mode like other aircraft.

Page 86

It says 400-7000m 🤔

Screenshot_20220804-103725_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg


Edited by felixx75
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sedenion

sedenion

Posted
Posted (edited)

Pretty clear in fact: The search area is between 0.2NM (400m) and 3.7NM (7km)... while the presented scale on the scope switches to its minimum range, which is 7NM (13km). What is confusing here, is that the scope scale is up to 7NM, while the actual search area is up to 7km (3.7NM). I guess CSF engineers designed radar internal computing and specifications in metric system then later created the displays and "user" parameters in NM to fit aeronautic standards.


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Hodo

Hodo

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The radar is actually not bad.  You just have to know how to use it.  It is only really effective on a closing target inside 40nm.   

The radar isn't like modern easy to use radars.  It scans pretty slow but if you cut it down to 30deg scan it's pretty quick.  Just know that on left hand sweeps it's above right hand below.  And sweeps 3 and 4 are closest to level with you.

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Get_Lo

Get_Lo

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, felixx75 said:

Page 86

It says 400-7000m 🤔

Screenshot_20220804-103725_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

 

 

9 hours ago, sedenion said:

Pretty clear in fact: The search area is between 0.2NM (400m) and 3.7NM (7km)... while the presented scale on the scope switches to its minimum range, which is 7NM (13km). What is confusing here, is that the scope scale is up to 7NM, while the actual search area is up to 7km (3.7NM). I guess CSF engineers designed radar internal computing and specifications in metric system then later created the displays and "user" parameters in NM to fit aeronautic standards.

 

Yeah thats the Aerges manual, how about the real Cyrano manual
1b5c04c56f2c47cf5f58c5536a59345a.png
Or how about the real flight manual
unknown.png
f98c20fdd4ecbcea7757ad592d5fe112.png

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Kev2go

Kev2go

Posted
Posted

its only unfortunate that the Mirage F1 doesn't have IFF interrogate capability with the radar, when it was common for other aircraft to have such functions in that timeframe.

 

 

 

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Get_Lo

Get_Lo

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kev2go said:

its only unfortunate that the Mirage F1 doesn't have IFF interrogate capability with the radar, when it was common for other aircraft to have such functions in that timeframe.

 

 

Its not such a problem right now, but once we get the S530F I REALLY hope we have an AWACS Declare option, we will need it.

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