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option to hide propeller for VR Motion Smoothing


baco30

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As extreme solution, I wish the option to hide the propeller disc on WW2 planes through a key binding, similar to the hide/show stick or hide/show pilot body. 

The OpenXR or SteamVR Motion Smoothing is amazing in improving the visual quality but the annoying side effect is the blurring and splitting of objects through the propeller disc.

With that option at least it would be possible to hide it during flight and have a clear vision ahead (the propeller disc in real life would be anyway almost invisible).

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2 hours ago, baco30 said:

As extreme solution, I wish the option to hide the propeller disc on WW2 planes through a key binding, similar to the hide/show stick or hide/show pilot body. 

The OpenXR or SteamVR Motion Smoothing is amazing in improving the visual quality but the annoying side effect is the blurring and splitting of objects through the propeller disc.

With that option at least it would be possible to hide it during flight and have a clear vision ahead (the propeller disc in real life would be anyway almost invisible).

Thanks

What a brilliant suggestion. I wonder if it's possible to do the same for helicopters - and if it would also have a positive impact on performance not being rendered in. Just to have it hidden after certain RPM's would be great.

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This setting would need to be controllable in MP where it could be considered a game aid. 

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On 8/4/2022 at 2:53 PM, SharpeXB said:

This setting would need to be controllable in MP where it could be considered a game aid. 

It really wouldn't. Same as how other graphics options aren't controllable in MP for very obvious reasons.

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50 minutes ago, Tippis said:

It really wouldn't. Same as how other graphics options aren't controllable in MP for very obvious reasons.

The ability to see though parts of your aircraft is an exploit though or “aid” similar to using labels. I imagine most players want that sort of thing controlled online. 

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5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The ability to see though parts of your aircraft is an exploit though or “aid” similar to using labels. I imagine most players want that sort of thing controlled online. 

I think you are mixing things up. This is regarding the spinning propeller, an already see-trough item. It has nothing to do with being used as an "aid". In VR all propellers (except P-51D) messes with re-projection/motion smoothing. The result is that the gunsight in front of the propeller gets totally warped around and it's visually... well ugly and immersion breaking.

If anything, an option to hide the propeller disc will make the difference between flat screen users and VR users smaller. It's not an aid, it's a visual fix that should not have any impact on multiplayer performance.  

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21 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

I think you are mixing things up. This is regarding the spinning propeller, an already see-trough item. It has nothing to do with being used as an "aid". In VR all propellers (except P-51D) messes with re-projection/motion smoothing. The result is that the gunsight in front of the propeller gets totally warped around and it's visually... well ugly and immersion breaking.

If anything, an option to hide the propeller disc will make the difference between flat screen users and VR users smaller. It's not an aid, it's a visual fix that should not have any impact on multiplayer performance.  

It’s sorta see-through but it does hinder visibility for any display type. Making it completely invisible would be an exploit. The VR problem isn’t so much related to VR as it is motion-smoothing. The real problem is VR performance, motion smoothing should be something that kicks in occasionally, it was never intended that games run on this 100% of the time. Improving VR performance in DCS would eliminate the need for this and get rid of the artifacts. That’s the real problem. 

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The ability to see though parts of your aircraft is

A standard feature that anyone can use and which provides none of the supposed advantage suggested by the ones who complain about it without having actually checked it out. And in this case, everyone can see through this particular part anyway so somehow it manages to be entirely irrelevant twice over. That shouldn't even be possible.

But more to the point, graphics options aren't controllable in MP for very obvious reasons. Same applies here.

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s sorta see-through but it does hinder visibility for any display type

Not even close. It's no more an exploit than changing your resolution or refresh rate, both of which affects what you see and how in-game assets are drawn and animated.

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s the real problem. 

The real problem is that pancake mode users do not suffer from the visual degradation. This idea would eliminate that discrepancy and make the game same for both. Based on your history of posting, this is why you're against it: because it makes things more equal and removes an disadvantage from players that aren't you, and other players must at all cost retain all their relative disadvantages to you.

I guess another reason in line with your standard line of argumentation would be that this would actually improve the realism of the VR view, and you've been quite adamant in your argument against those kinds of changes in the past…


Edited by Tippis
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5 minutes ago, Tippis said:

The real problem is that pancake mode users do not suffer from the visual degradation.

Is your solution to degrade monitor visuals then? 😆 If VR performance was improved to the point where motion smoothing wasn’t needed, this problem wouldn’t exist. The problem here is motion smoothing, not the sim. 

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9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Is your solution to degrade monitor visuals then? 😆

That would be the only other viable option. And I use “viable” very generously here.

But no, that's not my solution. It's more in line with the kind of nerfs and reductions in quality you are so keen on imposing on other players, except in this case, it would be imposed on you instead. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If VR performance was improved

…then we'd be several years into the future, not now, where this can solve the problem quite quickly and handily with no ill effects.


Edited by Tippis
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5 minutes ago, Tippis said:

That would be the only other viable option. And I use “viable” very generously here.

Not viable in the least… VR is a choice after all, it’s not required to play this game. If players don’t like it’s effects they can always choose not to use it. 

5 minutes ago, Tippis said:

then we'd be several years into the future, not now, where this can solve the problem quite quickly and handily with no ill effects.

Who says this would be a quick fix? Nothing in DCS is quick… And the ill effect would be yet another divisive server/mission setting. 


Edited by SharpeXB

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5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Not viable at all.

There you go then. So the OP's suggestion is the one that remains as a workable, non-geological-time-scale, universal and non-vendor specific solution. As a bonus, it has no ill effects that need to be managed (well, unless they do something silly like add another 4k shader/texture of nothing… 😄).

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If players don’t like it’s effects they can always choose not to use it. 

Exactly. So the whole notion that it must somehow be controlled in MP, unlike every other graphics and display setting, is bunk.

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Who says this would be a quick fix

Anyone with even the tiniest shred of programming knowledge.


Edited by Tippis
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4 minutes ago, Tippis said:

There you go then

I wrote that in response to your post, go back and read…

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14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s sorta see-through but it does hinder visibility for any display type. Making it completely invisible would be an exploit. The VR problem isn’t so much related to VR as it is motion-smoothing. The real problem is VR performance, motion smoothing should be something that kicks in occasionally, it was never intended that games run on this 100% of the time. Improving VR performance in DCS would eliminate the need for this and get rid of the artifacts. That’s the real problem. 

Running DCS at 90fps or higher depending on headset still seems such a way off I would happily take any workarounds available in the short term. Having it as an option which can be server controlled if necessary but it would be pretty frustrating to have the feature not considered due to multiplayer when such a small minority fly WW2 online.

Options are good, as DCS VR performance improves some of us may prefer to get improved visuals and still run at 45fps with motion smoothing always on. Maxing everything out with MSAA on full, oversampling etc. will continue to put a huge strain on hardware. there isn't a sim that can do this and it would seem naive to think the need for motion smoothing could be eliminated for everyone.

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The Splitting and Blurring isnt caused by the propeller, it's caused by the smoothing filter removing frames with the high jitter value.

So if you have 3 rendered frames in a pipeline, A,B,C, and the aircraft is moving from A to C, and you removed frame B due to high jitter value, and merged frames A and C to maintain fluidity, then, there will be a gap/split or blur in the frames.

Making the prop invisible would not solve the problem, Higher Fields per second in the rendering pipeline would, assuming there's more frames to cover for the high jitter value frames, before they are deleted and merged down to the refresh rate Hz.

and it would be considered an Aid, as not all props are "nearly" invisible, some are are as opaque as a heavy tint.


Edited by SkateZilla
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1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

Making the prop invisible would not solve the problem

How would it not, when it's the presence of that moving propeller that makes the rendering artefacts show up?

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18 minutes ago, Tippis said:

How would it not, when it's the presence of that moving propeller that makes the rendering artefacts show up?

Ive seen this issue on jets as well, so it's not the propeller.

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Just now, SkateZilla said:

Ive seen this issue on jets as well, so it's not the propeller.

What are you looking through in those cases? And does it matter for the general operation of those planes?

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3 minutes ago, Tippis said:

What are you looking through in those cases? And does it matter for the general operation of those planes?

HUD

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But if it bother's you that much,
make the alpha on the prop texture 0.


Edited by SkateZilla

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1 minute ago, SkateZilla said:

HUD

So it's much the same where it's the overlap between fast-moving and (relatively) static elements that gets the processing to go haywire (you can occasionally see the same along thin cockpit structural elements). Remove one or the other and the rendering confusion goes away, and that's really all the OP is asking for.

Just now, SkateZilla said:

But if it bother's you that much,
make the alpha on the prop 0.

The option would be nice. All options always are, especially when it comes to tweaking the visual appearance of the game.

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On 8/4/2022 at 7:53 AM, SharpeXB said:

This setting would need to be controllable in MP where it could be considered a game aid. 

No, it isn't. And the discs both for planes and helos are barely/not visible in the first place in the real life. Especially the rotor on a helo is a poorly done effect in DCS that causes unnecessary stuttering besides being unrealisitic. Real life is not a youtube video, you don't see the shadows, or individual blades with your eyes.

The propellor effect we have now is already a big step toward realism because it is greatly reduced from what we had before, and helicopter rotors need to follow suit. It's not ''a game aide'' it's literally ''something that's wrong that needs to be fixed''.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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48 minutes ago, Mars Exulte said:

No, it isn't. And the discs both for planes and helos are barely/not visible in the first place in the real life

It might be barely visible but it’s still something you need to look though and when it comes to discerning distant contacts it’s still a factor. A graphic option like simple vs advanced prop modeling might be a good idea. The simple version just being a texture or something. But not removing it entirely. 


Edited by SharpeXB

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

It might be barely visible but it’s still something you need to look though and when it comes to discerning distant contacts it’s still a factor. A graphic option like simple vs advanced prop modeling might be a good idea. The simple version just being a texture or something. But not removing it entirely. 

 

The VR issue gives a result which is unrealistic and can be immersion breaking for some. Having the option to turn it off would seem to get us closer to real life, at least in the short term. Force it on in multiplayer if it really seems to matter.

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