Think you're good? Try the bag!

[Ian Boys UK]

I've been reading Ed Macy's book "Hellfire" that details his time learning the Apache as well as flying it on ops (Highly recommended!) and he details practising in "the bag", including steady pick ups and hovering on IHADSS symbology alone. No PNVS, it's cheating. It was useful practice for landing in brown out conditions caused by dust etc.

The first time he picked up to a hover and tried to hold it still, he managed 7 feet or so, IIRC. He thought he'd gone many times that distance. I'm impressed he wasn't upside down.

Well I've been trying it. It's so difficult!!

You need this skin pack (Japanese flying school): 
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3324665/

And remember:
No PNVS, it's cheating.

 

 

[bradmick]

You 100% are supposed to use the PNVS. The purpose of the bag is to teach forced dependence and reliance on using the PNVS and symbology prior to moving onto nights. We don’t fly the helicopter with out the PNVS in the bag…you practice brown out landings by landing in actual brown out conditions both day and night (with the PNVS).

Edited August 5, 2022 by bradmick

[Ian Boys UK]

Well he's in a different Army - see his text right here:

 

[Raptor9]

There was also some modest embellishment in the book as well. Innocent, but a little cringey from points-of-view of others that are familiar with the subject matter.

Not to diminish the service of him, or any of his colleagues he flew and fought with. But there were a few instances during my own read of the book I had an eye-roll and a chuckle.

[RodBorza]

I've been reading Ed Macy's book "Hellfire" that details his time learning the Apache as well as flying it on ops (Highly recommended!) and he details practising in "the bag", including steady pick ups and hovering on IHADSS symbology alone. No PNVS, it's cheating. It was useful practice for landing in brown out conditions caused by dust etc.

The first time he picked up to a hover and tried to hold it still, he managed 7 feet or so, IIRC. He thought he'd gone many times that distance. I'm impressed he wasn't upside down.

Well I've been trying it. It's so difficult!!

You need this skin pack (Japanese flying school): 
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3324665/

And remember:
No PNVS, it's cheating.
 
 

Cool! I'll try it.

Enviado de meu SM-A127M usando o Tapatalk

[sirrah]

6 hours ago, Ian Boys UK said:

Well he's in a different Army - see his text right here:

 

 

He also wrote that starting up the Apache required over 1000 button presses and takes at least 30mins (if you rush it)...

I don't say by any means I doubt his knowledge and it's definitely not my intention to talk bad about the author, but it seems that some of his phrases/paragraphs are either somewhat exaggerated or need to be read with a grain of salt.

Personally, I stopped reading his book "Apache" for this reason. Although it's nice, especially his combat stories, I mainly read these kind of books to also learn a thing or two. When I notice the author is exaggerating regularly, I start to doubt every word at some point. I had the same with Kevin Miller's "Raven One", although I finished that book, I read it with a novel mindset. 

But again, if you want some nice scenario stories and a sneak peek on UK Army helo ops, Ed Macy's books are a nice read.

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, sirrah said:

He also wrote that starting up the Apache required over 1000 button presses and takes at least 30mins (if you rush it)...

Well, it is true if you try typing all your map data (flight plan, CMs and so on) in by hand instead of bringing a DTC.  That one is particularly funny since the Apache is, by far, the easiest helo in DCS to get up and running. You basically turn the battery key, start the APU, crank and cut in engine 1, crank and cut in engine 2, throttle them up and you're good to go. I drove a truck that took about that much effort to get going (and it liked rapid throttle changes less than the Apache, to boot). The Apache is quite "Army-proof" in that regard. The one that takes 1000 switch flips is the Hind (and Mi-8, to a lesser extent), and that's only if you miss the convenient levers for flipping all the breakers at once.  

[bradmick]

9 hours ago, Ian Boys UK said:

Well he's in a different Army - see his text right here:

 

I’ll just say this is an embellishment. I’ve flown with and trained a fair amount of folks from across the Pond over the last couple of years or so. I’ve had a lot of opportunities to talk about and compare training methodologies.The whole purpose of the bag, as stated, is to introduce the pnvs prior to going to the night phase. It definitely sounds a lot more dramatic when you say you’re forced to fly without the system ….but it falsely represents and defeats the purpose of the training. 

[Rotordisc_jockey]

3 hours ago, sirrah said:

 

He also wrote that starting up the Apache required over 1000 button presses and takes at least 30mins (if you rush it)...

I don't say by any means I doubt his knowledge and it's definitely not my intention to talk bad about the author, but it seems that some of his phrases/paragraphs are either somewhat exaggerated or need to be read with a grain of salt.

Personally, I stopped reading his book "Apache" for this reason. Although it's nice, especially his combat stories, I mainly read these kind of books to also learn a thing or two. When I notice the author is exaggerating regularly, I start to doubt every word at some point. I had the same with Kevin Miller's "Raven One", although I finished that book, I read it with a novel mindset. 

But again, if you want some nice scenario stories and a sneak peek on UK Army helo ops, Ed Macy's books are a nice read.

Fully recommend Apache over Libya. The best AH related book I've read to be honest really interesting to read about the maritime ops and the near-peer threat environment that was presented to them. 

I agree that Macy's books are like a Michael Bay film though  

[FalcoGer]

Again, AH-64 is not rated for IMC/IFR. You can fly at night, but you can't fly in no vis (cloud, fog, dust storm, night with pnv+tads failure). The GPS is not certified for the level of precision necessary and the radar is only to be used as an augmentation only, not as a replacement for visual reference.

 

[kgillers3]

2 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

Again, AH-64 is not rated for IMC/IFR. You can fly at night, but you can't fly in no vis (cloud, fog, dust storm, night with pnv+tads failure). The GPS is not certified for the level of precision necessary and the radar is only to be used as an augmentation only, not as a replacement for visual reference.

 

As answered too you before. The bag is not for ifr. 

A good example of not understanding the purpose of something

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Yeah, I saw that movie. Bag kicked Nicholas Cage's butt . Thankfully a senior VW4 Tommy Lee Jones rescued him.

[Raptor9]

6 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

The GPS is not certified for the level of precision necessary

The GPS precision isn't the reason it isn't certified for GPS navigation in IMC, it's the lack of a navigational database certified for IFR from which to draw from.

[S. Low]

It’s a sim, we don’t need certification. Just go into a night time mission and fly under PNVS. Taxi, take off, pattern, land, taxi, park. Then do it again and go fight.

edit: and tbh if you want to git gud, you need to experience a multiplayer mission (public or private) where you have to juggle radio comms with multiple aircraft and ground controllers in combat. It’s eye opening.

Edited August 9, 2022 by S. Low

[FalcoGer]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:22 AM, kgillers3 said:

As answered too you before. The bag is not for ifr. 

A good example of not understanding the purpose of something

I understand it's to practice with the pnvs and sensors. OP said they use the bag without pnvs.

On 8/8/2022 at 3:40 PM, Raptor9 said:

The GPS precision isn't the reason it isn't certified for GPS navigation in IMC, it's the lack of a navigational database certified for IFR from which to draw from.

thank you for clarifying.

[agamemnon_b5]

On 8/5/2022 at 6:21 AM, bradmick said:

I’ll just say this is an embellishment. I’ve flown with and trained a fair amount of folks from across the Pond over the last couple of years or so. I’ve had a lot of opportunities to talk about and compare training methodologies.The whole purpose of the bag, as stated, is to introduce the pnvs prior to going to the night phase. It definitely sounds a lot more dramatic when you say you’re forced to fly without the system ….but it falsely represents and defeats the purpose of the training. 

So you're saying that's the only thing Firebirds got close to getting right