New PC Advice

[Alphadriver]

Hello 

Its time to upgrade my PC. I Currently have an all in one Dell Inspiron 7777 AIO with a Nvidia GTX 1050 card. DCS stopped loading the other day. (Not surprised:)

I have around $2500 saved up to run DCS properly.  Other the last 10 months I have been hooked.  I purchased on steam FC3, F-18,16,14, A-10, MIG-21,19. Maps, I have Nevada and Syria which I never uploaded due to disk space.  Already have X-56 Rhino and TrackIR as well. DCS is just awesome and I really want to enjoy all it has to offer.

 

Looking for advice on specs for an upgradable pre-built PC for decent gameplay for solo and multiplayer.  Also looking at monitors as well but not up to speed on them.

 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Alphadriver

 

 

[72Stu]

Welcome @Alphadriver

I see you are a DCS player, excellent info. Are you wanting to stay with Track IR, or go Reverb G2/ Pimax VR soon?

64GB DDR4 is the RAM spec for future multiplayer gaming in all cases. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by 72Stu

[Alphadriver]

Thanks for responding.

I would like to stick with Track IR for the moment.

[xoxen]

Actually the AMD CPUs are cheap, the 5800X I own is around 270 EUR and definitely enough for DCS. This in addition with a 3080 and 64GB of 3600 CL16 or 3200 CL14 RAM is a good combo.

Do you want to go for a desktop PC or a Laptop. If desktop, what size of monitor are you looking for?

Edited August 5, 2022 by xoxen

[Alphadriver]

Thanks for responding.

Going for the PC.  Looking at a 27” or 32” QHD monitor. Not sure what Hz I need though for decent performance.

[xoxen]

OK, I had a night thinking about my previous post and if I would have to invest into a new machine, I would do it as follows to be future proof.

Processor:

Intel CPU (e. g. 12700K) or wait for the new AMD Ryzen 7000 Series which offer the new and future proof socket AM 5. It should be launched by September.

Mainboard:

My experience it that it does not necessarily have to be a high end board. Something around $150 should work the same way if you are no hardcore overclocker. Look at the features the single chipsets offer.

Graphics card:

New ones will come up by the end of this year, but prices for Nvidia as well as AMD are dropping. My experience is, the higher the resolution, the more you benefit from Nvidia. The RTX 3080 I have is a beast, maybe you can put hands on a 3080 Ti or higher.

RAM

64 GB DDR 5 RAM (DDR 4 is outdated), actualy only intel supports it, AMD will follow shortly. AMD is more sensitive to clocking speed and timings, at least it is the case for the Ryzen 5000 Series.

Power supply:

To be future proof you should at least head for 850W, maybe go even higher as the new upcoming GPUs should suck up more wattage.

Storage:

Do yourselve a favour and use a M.2 PCIE 4.0 harddisk. I have one for Windows and Programs and an own one for DCS as I play this exclusevly. The loading times are fantastic.

Display:

Have a look for a GSync (Nvidia) or FreeSync (AMD) compatible display. I guess a 144 Hz one is a good choice. The GSync for example takes care that the Hz of your display is in line with the FPS of your game to give you a smooth and tearing free experience.

I hope this gives you a good start basis for your further observations. Feel free to ask for details if you need some.

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by xoxen

[BitMaster]

I just checked mindfactory.de for DDR4 and DDR prices and availability. Actually, you can buy 64GB DDR5 for the same money as 64GB DDR4 kits by now but they are at the slower end of the chain. You wouldn't want to carry neither of the options to a "next" PC down the road in 3-5 years time, so that's not a point for DDR5 being future proof. DDR5-6400 will be so obsolete in 2 years time, just as 2666MHz DDR4 is by now.

I ask myself if AMD has made a slight mistake in forcing 7000 series onto DDR5 yet. It still doesn't convince me as complete package. Reviews will tell us more.

Edited August 6, 2022 by BitMaster

[Hoirtel]

3 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

I just checked mindfactory.de for DDR4 and DDR prices and availability. Actually, you can buy 64GB DDR5 for the same money as 64GB DDR4 kits by now but they are at the slower end of the chain. You wouldn't want to carry neither of the options to a "next" PC down the road in 3-5 years time, so that's not a point for DDR5 being future proof. DDR5-6400 will be so obsolete in 2 years time, just as 2666MHz DDR4 is by now.

I ask myself if AMD has made a slight mistake in forcing 7000 series onto DDR5 yet. It still doesn't convince me as complete package. Reviews will tell us more.

 

Is 6400 considered slow for DDR5? The slower kits I have seen are 5200 and 5600.

[xoxen]

But you already have the DDR 5 slot, this was my thinking. You can replace the RAM or the CPU whilst you are at the end of the road at the Ryzen 5000 boards with DDR 4 and AM4 socket.

[LucShep]

6 hours ago, BitMaster said:

I just checked mindfactory.de for DDR4 and DDR prices and availability. Actually, you can buy 64GB DDR5 for the same money as 64GB DDR4 kits by now but they are at the slower end of the chain. You wouldn't want to carry neither of the options to a "next" PC down the road in 3-5 years time, so that's not a point for DDR5 being future proof. DDR5-6400 will be so obsolete in 2 years time, just as 2666MHz DDR4 is by now.

I ask myself if AMD has made a slight mistake in forcing 7000 series onto DDR5 yet. It still doesn't convince me as complete package. Reviews will tell us more.

 

Exactly.
I think people are looking into DDR5 and believe that "any DDR5 will do" just because they're the newer tech. Not so.

There are DDR5 64GB kits, sure, but most of the available ones are DDR5 5200 CL40 (can not recommend) and DDR5 5600 CL30 (better, but still too expensive for the spec).
Haven't found any 64GB kit available (in stock) for DDR5 6400 CL32, but I presume it goes for outrageous price?

The DDR4 64GB kits of either 3200 or 3600 speed, CL14 up to CL18 (for example, DDR4 3600 16-18-18-38) are the better options for Intel and have been most recommended for gaming, so long of course that you have the Z690 DDR4 motherboard for it.

About AMD 7000 series and DDR5, I'm actually curious how they're going to counter the latency-vs-speed balance, seeing that it has been far more sensitive with AMD than Intel, and that the latency is far bigger with DDR5 than with DDR4.
 

5 hours ago, xoxen said:

But you already have the DDR 5 slot, this was my thinking. You can replace the RAM or the CPU whilst you are at the end of the road at the Ryzen 5000 boards with DDR 4 and AM4 socket.

That's a good point, the longevity and parts availability being a concern for long term. But it's not like DDR4 is gone and done (not yet).

This is just from contacting a few PC stores around here but, they all confirm that DDR4 still outsells DDR5 when it comes to Motherboard+RAM combo for Intel 12th gen.
I suppose the same happens all around the world, and certainly that can not go unnoticed to Intel and manufacturers.
The upcoming Intel 13th gen and Z790 platform are to still support (be compatible with) DDR4, so long as manufacturers produce the motherboards for it (AsRock were the first to confirm they will, more will follow). 

Edited August 6, 2022 by LucShep

[Alphadriver]

Great inputs everyone!!!

Feeling much more informed and confident in finding the right specs for my next PC.

Looks like I'll choose for now a Intel CPU ,64GB DDR4 RAM, RTX3080, and a 144HZ Gsync Nvidia monitor.

Just 1 more question: Should the monitor be curved or flat? What is the benefit in DCS of a Curved screen if any?

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[Hiob]

5 minutes ago, Alphadriver said:

Should the monitor be curved or flat? What is the benefit in DCS of a Curved screen if any?

None. Unless you go very big and very close. 

Just a matter of preference.

My personal take on monitors regarding DCS: Preferably 16:9 than ultra wide screen.

[Alphadriver]

Thank you for the info.

 

Much appreciated!!!

[BitMaster]

Am 6.8.2022 um 11:06 schrieb Hoirtel:

Is 6400 considered slow for DDR5? The slower kits I have seen are 5200 and 5600.

It actually is.

See, DDR5 just launched a year ago and like with all prior releases of RAM, DDR2, 3 and 4 it took them 1-2 years until the newer one surpassed the ripened precursor. DDR3 could hold it's ground at 2400/2600MHz until DDR4 finally got passed 3000ishMHz with decent latencies.

Just when DDR4 came out, the fastest you could buy were little above JDEC standard 2133MHz, I think 2666 and 2800MHz were the fastest commonly available for some time.  DDR4 has passed the 4266MHz marker already years ago, that is twice the original launch speed of 2133.

 

DDR5 is said to reach speeds above 12800MHz once it has matured a bit. That's when DDR5 shines.

DDR5 will also double the maximum module size, so future DDR5 based desktops should have 256GB system memory limit and not todays 128GB limit, both across 2 channels.

There will be 64GB single modules, so you can do a 128GB rig with 2 of 4 slots in use.

 

Right now, nothing of that what makes DDR5 great is present, tho the price has come down. The next round for 2023 CPU and chipset releases will be the next tier of speed together with tuned latency and maybe the new bigger 32Gbit chips will become available to make the bigger modules. 

That will make it easier to get a fast 64GB setup with 2 modules, each with 1R8-32Gbit. That is not possible with DDR4, it just went from 8 to 16Gbit chips recently ( 2-3 years maybe ), so max. you can do is 2R8-16Gbit, which also gives you a 32GB module but it carries 16 chips, 8 on each side. DDR5 can do this with half the amount of chips on a more simple PCB and thus be cheaper per GB even if 1 new chip costs a little more than the older ones.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by BitMaster

[Hoirtel]

@BitMaster @LucShep Good information there. I was aware of some of that but thanks for the detail. Would you still recommend building a new pc using 13th gen or am5 on DDR4? Would it not better to go with DDR5 and upgrade down the line when the better speeds become available? 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Hoirtel

[BitMaster]

AMD AM5 will not support DDR4 afaik but you can with 13thgen Intel.

It remains to be seen if current CPU's, chipsets and boards can run a future 8000MHz or faster kit, I highly doubt that.

Usually, over time, RAM gets faster, CPU's adopt to the new speeds, so do the boards and everything else. 

 

[72Stu]

@HoirtelI would grab an i5 12600 or 12700 and a 3080 12gb right now, and laugh at the fools who hung on for the overpriced "next gen".

DDR5 is the future ofc, but is slightly less than, or at least equal to DDR4 right now. That will change as tech develops.

 I was "shoe horned" into DDR5 only by virtue of going SFF and Intel 12th gen. No regrets. The only gripe I had was the cost, that is coming down steadily.  

Edited August 8, 2022 by 72Stu

[Hoirtel]

5 hours ago, BitMaster said:

AMD AM5 will not support DDR4 afaik but you can with 13thgen Intel.

It remains to be seen if current CPU's, chipsets and boards can run a future 8000MHz or faster kit, I highly doubt that.

Usually, over time, RAM gets faster, CPU's adopt to the new speeds, so do the boards and everything else. 

 

I'm confused now. So 6400mhz is slow and not advisable but you doubt boards will ever run 8000mhz. 

12800 is when it will shine?