fixed AUTOPILOT is not correctly modeled

[Panthir]

Hello Gents,

The Autopilot is not correctly modeled. In real life you could press the attitude hold button (when in favourable conditions, if I remember well + 45 climb - decent, + 60 deg bank) and the Autopilot was engaging. Then you could press and hold the autopilot pallet in control stick, change attitude and leave the pallet and the autopilot was engaging again (of course when in favourable conditions). In DCS when I press the attitude hold button autopilot doesn't go alive. 

Is there any plan to fix this issue?

If you need any further help with F-1 I can help

 

 

 

本帖最后于2022年11月2日，由Vibora编辑

[RED]

Are you sure you are using the correct controls? There are two similar controls. The disconnect trigger works as you described and then there is the disengage lever which disables the auto pilot completely.

[MAXsenna]

The disconnect button disables Alt Hold. 

[Vatikus]

5 hours ago, Panthir said:

Hello Gents,

The Autopilot is not correctly modeled. In real life you could press the attitude hold button (when in favourable conditions, if I remember well + 45 climb - decent, + 60 deg bank) and the Autopilot was engaging. Then you could press and hold the autopilot pallet in control stick, change attitude and leave the pallet and the autopilot was engaging again (of course when in favourable conditions). In DCS when I press the attitude hold button autopilot doesn't go alive. 

Is there any plan to fix this issue?

If you need any further help with F-1 I can help

In DCS for Autopilot to engage, you need to press and hold the autopilot pallet in control stick as you press the autopilot button.
Not idea if that reflects the real procedure

[gabuzomeu]

Just checked in the F1 CZ manual and it is written: 

« autopilot is engaged by depressing the AP pushbutton while holding the autopilot disconnect trigger depressed on the control stick »

So exactly what we have modelled in our game. 
 

[Tango3B]

2 hours ago, gabuzomeu said:

Just checked in the F1 CZ manual and it is written: 

« autopilot is engaged by depressing the AP pushbutton while holding the autopilot disconnect trigger depressed on the control stick »

So exactly what we have modelled in our game. 
 

Exactly. I am looking at a certain document right now which I cannot share and it shows AERGES to be correct. The OP however, is referring to a method alike to what you would see in a MiG-29 because he says ( if I understood correctly) he wants push in the AP disconnect trigger while he intends to make a changes to the flight attitude. Then, when he lets go of the trigger, his assumpption is that the AP should accept the new flight attitude and hold/stabilize the aircraft there. This is definitely not what the AP in the CE version does. Maybe the OP is referring to some kind of Ex version? Maybe an EQ? I do not know which version was capable of doing that but the EQ 6 comes to my mind...! Anyone?!

[MAXsenna]

1 minute ago, Tango3B said:

 he wants push in the AP disconnect trigger while he intends to make a changes to the flight attitude. Then, when he lets go of the trigger, his assumpption is that the AP should accept the new flight attitude and hold/stabilize the aircraft there.

Huh, this is exactly how it works for me.  

It's not totally accurate for me. But I press and hold the button, change the attitude and let go. And it pretty much stays in the new attitude. I fault the inaccuracy to my hardware though. 

Cheers! 

[Tango3B]

1 minute ago, MAXsenna said:

Huh, this is exactly how it works for me.  

It's not totally accurate for me. But I press and hold the button, change the attitude and let go. And it pretty much stays in the new attitude. I fault the inaccuracy to my hardware though. 

Cheers! 

Uhm, yeah. I was not clear enough. He was also talking about only using the altitude hold button to activate the AP. But wait, let me do a test here real quick. I´ll be back in 15 minutes...

[Tango3B]

11 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Huh, this is exactly how it works for me.  

It's not totally accurate for me. But I press and hold the button, change the attitude and let go. And it pretty much stays in the new attitude. I fault the inaccuracy to my hardware though. 

Cheers! 

Ok, so it didn´t take 15 minutes. Well, pushing in the AP disconnect trigger indeed lets you change flight attitude and letting go of it indeed activates basic AP basic functions (ATT hold), again. Hmm, that is interesting and i did not realise that, yet. Also, my document does not state that function and it lets me look like a moron here.  I take it, though. But again, activating the AP by only pushing the ALT Hold button is not applicable for the CE and I should have been more clear on that. Also, Aerges is right in the overall implemantation of the AP and that is the whole point, I guess...but yeah, MAXsenna, my face is a bit red...

[jaguara5]

Yep, what the other users have said. From the F1CG manual . 

 

本帖最后于2022年8月8日，由jaguara5编辑

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Tango3B said:

Ok, so it didn´t take 15 minutes. Well, pushing in the AP disconnect trigger indeed lets you change flight attitude and letting go of it indeed activates basic AP basic functions (ATT hold), again. Hmm, that is interesting and i did not realise that, yet. Also, my document does not state that function and it lets me look like a moron here.  I take it, though. But again, activating the AP by only pushing the ALT Hold button is not applicable for the CE and I should have been more clear on that. Also, Aerges is right in the overall implemantation of the AP and that is the whole point, I guess...but yeah, MAXsenna, my face is a bit red...

Haha! No worries. I just want this to be correct.

Anyway, so it is intended and correct that "Altitude Hold" is disabled?

[gabuzomeu]

It seems the AP is reverting to basic attitude hold indeed in this case.

Also does it when in the transonic region (.96 to 1.07 M) as altitude hold cannot be maintained.

Another i did not test is modifying attitude by using trim buttons : I think this should work.

 

[gulredrel]

38 minutes ago, gabuzomeu said:

It seems the AP is reverting to basic attitude hold indeed in this case.

Also does it when in the transonic region (.96 to 1.07 M) as altitude hold cannot be maintained.

Another i did not test is modifying attitude by using trim buttons : I think this should work.

 

Changing attitude with trim works, when basic mode is on. But currently there is a bug. Pitch commands are currently inverted in this regime, you need to use trim down to pitch up when attitude hold is on. So be careful when doing this low level 

本帖最后于2022年8月9日，由gulredrel编辑
typo corrected

[Panthir]

Gents, I have spent 1500hours in F-1CG Hellenic Air Force cockpits and AP was working as I described (I hope that alchaimer haven’t knocked my door yet). If I am not wrong, the same way as DCS M2K AP works. You just press the Attitude button. Then you can engage other functions. Of course AP won’t engage if you have the stick pallet depressed

I assess that CZ version AP function works the same way.

I will ask a friend, that kept -1 Manual, to send me a photo of the relevant page.

 

 

本帖最后于2022年8月9日，由Panthir编辑

[jaguara5]

F1CG manual. 

本帖最后于2022年8月9日，由jaguara5编辑

[gabuzomeu]

Perhaps is it a later version : Has F1 CG been upgraded , with a change in nav/autopilot?

 

[Panthir]

No it was not upgraded. F-1CG was acquired by HAF in 1975. Concerning my aforementioned post for autopilot, I have just called a colleague that you had been in 334 for 11 years and he confirmed what I said. The manual due to the fact that it was translated in english by french people had several mistakes. It should be one of those. We have to ask other pilots to hear their opinion. We are sure that depressing the stick disengage pallet was not needed. It was very simple. Just pushing the button.

[Fromthedeep]

23 hours ago, Panthir said:

The manual due to the fact that it was translated in english by french people had several mistakes. It should be one of those. We have to ask other pilots to hear their opinion. We are sure that depressing the stick disengage pallet was not needed. It was very simple. Just pushing the button

This is very interesting, thank you for your input and taking your time to ask your friend about it. I wonder if Aerges can verify this with their own Spanish pilots who help with the development of the module.

[ARM505]

I always thought it was odd to have to push the stick button when engaging the A/P - that's not like any autopilot I've ever heard of or used.....we'd need the original French manual to see if it's a 'lost in translation' thing.

Pilots would definitely remember whether they had to push the stick button in, it's odd. I'd remember that.

[Panthir]

Today I got my stick serviced back from Virpil and I will trying tesing my beloved F-1!!!

[Flappie]

Hello @Panthir. How do you find the autopilot changes brought in today's OB update?

Quote

Complete autopilot rework (BIP trim fix will be included in next update):

• AP is now less aggressive in altitude hold mode.
• Included radionavigation G and R modes that allow interception of a radial and following an ILS approach.
• Corrected AP engagement and mode logic, as well as light logic.

 

[Panthir]

Today finally they fixed the way that autopilot engages.

36 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Hello @Panthir. How do you find the autopilot changes brought in today's OB update?

 

I have just checked it and it seems almost excellent

[Panthir]

On 8/10/2022 at 5:08 PM, Fromthedeep said:

This is very interesting, thank you for your input and taking your time to ask your friend about it. I wonder if Aerges can verify this with their own Spanish pilots who help with the development of the module.

It seems that they verified it and accordingly fixed it

[Flappie]

Thanks. Has this thread earned the "Fixed" status according to you?

[Panthir]

They have to fix - fine-tune the flight model as well. F-1 was a very pilot friendly aircraft. You could do whatever you wish and it was very forgiving. Something that is very annoying is the way it behaves with asymmetric loads. The way it flies with one sidewinder is completely unrealistic.  In real life, flying with one sidewinder was almost like flying without any load.