Can we expect a female WSO?

[jeventy26]

On 10/30/2022 at 12:58 PM, nickos86 said:

I've asked for a female and black pilot models like 5 years ago

Still no progress by ED. Maybe RAZBAM will do it... I guess there are female or black pilots in the sim community... 

I believe the F-18 pilot is black in the Raven One campaign.  

[nickos86]

3 hours ago, jeventy26 said:

I believe the F-18 pilot is black in the Raven One campaign.  

He is. And that's kinnda the point. He's a great character, but if you look at his 3D model in the cockpit or if he'll eject - you'll see a white pilot model

BTW, there are also female pilots in Raven one...

[Alpha]

There not only two skin colors, nickos86. Instead of using time and effort to create dozens of different skin colors, voices, headsizes, noses,... this game, just like most others, relies on a bit of imagination on the user´s side and a generic pilot model (the fact that a fighter pilot wears visor, helmet, flightsuit etc makes seeing skin almost impossible anyway...). After all: nobody is actually flying anything - everybody is just sitting in front of some computer, pretending to be flying using a computer game. So don´t let yourselve be limited by forgetting about the most important thing: "imagination", as this is the main and most important ingredient for any computer game/simulation. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Alpha

[Elphaba]

On 11/2/2022 at 3:39 PM, PD919 said:

I demand that ED does a voice over of myself as the WSO as well as every other DCS player or else we can't really be immersed in the sim.  I also expect them to invite me in and do a mocap of me in every plane or else I will never buy another module.  This is the immersion I need.

Wheaton's Law. Read it. Learn it. 

[PD919]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:35 AM, Elphaba said:

Wheaton's Law. Read it. Learn it. 

The people who were going on tirades about ED adding all this stuff while their still bringing out the core gameplay elements were being jerks.  Maybe ED should just make the pilots stick figures and start adding extraneous stuff like that when the game is more finished just to shut the crybabies up.

Edited November 18, 2022 by PD919

[Elphaba]

On 11/5/2022 at 2:01 PM, Alpha said:

There not only two skin colors, nickos86. Instead of using time and effort to create dozens of different skin colors, voices, headsizes, noses,... this game, just like most others, relies on a bit of imagination on the user´s side and a generic pilot model (the fact that a fighter pilot wears visor, helmet, flightsuit etc makes seeing skin almost impossible anyway...). After all: nobody is actually flying anything - everybody is just sitting in front of some computer, pretending to be flying using a computer game. So don´t let yourselve be limited by forgetting about the most important thing: "imagination", as this is the main and most important ingredient for any computer game/simulation. 

 

VOICE isn't up to imagination. That you and others don't get that shows that the default voice is good enough for you, but for many others it is not. It's exclusionary or not inclusive and it's jarring. I can use my imagination to suppliment the game but when I hear a voice from an entire different sex then it breaks that 'mmersion' that you all love to go on about when it comes to patches, liveries and ammo colours etc.. 

That the game is over 30 years old and sectors of the player base and of the people doing these jobs for real, aren't represented is NOT a good look. 

But sure, as it doesn't affect you personally, then it's not important right? You can write everyone else off because your spot on the top of the hill is safe right?

 

[PD919]

6 minutes ago, Elphaba said:

VOICE isn't up to imagination. That you and others don't get that shows that the default voice is good enough for you, but for many others it is not. It's exclusionary or not inclusive and it's jarring. I can use my imagination to suppliment the game but when I hear a voice from an entire different sex then it breaks that 'mmersion' that you all love to go on about when it comes to patches, liveries and ammo colours etc.. 

That the game is over 30 years old and sectors of the player base and of the people doing these jobs for real, aren't represented is NOT a good look. 

But sure, as it doesn't affect you personally, then it's not important right? You can write everyone else off because your spot on the top of the hill is safe right?

 

You are literally making a sales pitch for ED to ditch their current pilot models for stick figure.  No model in this game look or sounds like me and I'm fine with that.  When people like you complain about almost meaningless things compared to fixing the game it leads to needless frustration from devs who spend hours just coding one line for something like Jester.  It only take 5 minutes for you to complain.  If the devs put in a huge effort and your going to give them grief then maybe we deserve stickfigures and Microsoft Sam until they can voice 1000 people and make 1000 models.  I'm sure even then someone will be offended.

[Nahen]

Get your ass off from your computers and go pick up girls on the F-15E. Let everyone pick up the girl WSO that suits him

 

I do not see any problem  

[Elphaba]

1 hour ago, Nahen said:

Get your ass off from your computers and go pick up girls on the F-15E. Let everyone pick up the girl WSO that suits him

 

I do not see any problem  

sigh... /smh

[Alpha]

Elphaba, I will not discuss what´s limiting your imagination - nobody can really help you there. If a "wrong" voice, haircolor, leglength, a bad livery, wrong serial number or whatever is a deal-breaker for your immersion or puts your train-of-thought into a search for exclusion then that really says nothing about the game, its developers or the vast majority of users who just don´t care about the imaginary voice of some imaginary computer-game-character while sitting in front of some desk, pretening to fly an imaginary airplane...

 

This is really nothing more than the usual discussion of someone complaining about a "missing livery of his favorite squadron" - either the developer feels like changing it or he doesn´t. Chances are if they aren´t bored without stuff to do they´ll not put ressources to that very minor cosmetic issue only even noticable for a small fraction of users. 

 

By the very concept of a "home computer game" vs "flying a real fighter jet" players/users are a very open-minded, imaginative, inclusive bunch. There´s probably some value in trying to see things through their eyes instead of trying to introduce one´s own limits to imagination upon them.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Alpha

[Scott-S6]

On 11/18/2022 at 3:25 PM, Elphaba said:

VOICE isn't up to imagination. That you and others don't get that shows that the default voice is good enough for you, but for many others it is not. It's exclusionary or not inclusive and it's jarring. I can use my imagination to suppliment the game but when I hear a voice from an entire different sex then it breaks that 'mmersion' that you all love to go on about when it comes to patches, liveries and ammo colours etc.. 

That the game is over 30 years old and sectors of the player base and of the people doing these jobs for real, aren't represented is NOT a good look. 

But sure, as it doesn't affect you personally, then it's not important right? You can write everyone else off because your spot on the top of the hill is safe right?

 

I'm not American so none of the WSO voices are "inclusive" for me. Should that be a problem?

Edited November 19, 2022 by Scott-S6

[Scott-S6]

On 11/18/2022 at 3:17 PM, PD919 said:

The people who were going on tirades about ED adding all this stuff while their still bringing out the core gameplay elements were being jerks.  Maybe ED should just make the pilots stick figures and start adding extraneous stuff like that when the game is more finished just to shut the crybabies up.

 

Easier to just get rid of pilot models and voices entirely.

[grimm862]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:25 AM, Elphaba said:

VOICE isn't up to imagination. That you and others don't get that shows that the default voice is good enough for you, but for many others it is not. It's exclusionary or not inclusive and it's jarring. I can use my imagination to suppliment the game but when I hear a voice from an entire different sex then it breaks that 'mmersion' that you all love to go on about when it comes to patches, liveries and ammo colours etc.. 

That the game is over 30 years old and sectors of the player base and of the people doing these jobs for real, aren't represented is NOT a good look. 

But sure, as it doesn't affect you personally, then it's not important right? You can write everyone else off because your spot on the top of the hill is safe right?

 

This has to be a troll post.

[Nahen]

From the very beginning, I argued that there should be no artificial WSO at all. Two-person option only. How many problems would that close before they would arise...

[Bremspropeller]

On 11/18/2022 at 4:25 PM, Elphaba said:

It's exclusionary or not inclusive and it's jarring. I can use my imagination to suppliment the game but when I hear a voice from an entire different sex then it breaks that 'mmersion' that you all love to go on about when it comes to patches, liveries and ammo colours etc.. 

So you'll just assume someone's gender by the tone of their voice. Talk about exclusionary.

 

[Dragon1-1]

Ideally, we would be able to mod the voice and change it on a per-mission basis. Doing that with Jester is not feasible, but the backseater in F-15E is not going to be any more complex than George. This means re-recording the lines would be much easier, since there aren't as many as with Jester.

[trevoC]

Maybe like Elite Dangerous we can pause development of the sim for 2 years and focus on a first person mode that allows you to exit your cockpit and walk around the plane and airport for a bit allowing us to completely customize our characters and lose focus completely on what the sim is about in the first place and then all come to the realization that this was a waste of time and that we'd much prefer any development resources to focus on the point of the simulator in the first place.

Until this thread I had not given even a single moments thought to how similar the pilots may or may not have been to my likeness. Mostly because like other games I can imagine a first person experience however I like and secondly because they are all wearing helmets and suits. When it comes to the voices, if there was a want/need for a female WSO I'm sure a third party could fill it. As a developer myself I think this is a bad idea as I doubt it would have much interest. I doubt I could recover even my cost in modding.

I also doubt that female players of DCS account for any significant numbers at all. I personally have never met one or heard of any online. Obviously I'm sure there are some but I highly doubt their numbers are statistically significant at all. I don't think any product or service should be persuaded to bend to the will of the lowest common denominator.

[Scott-S6]

35 minutes ago, trevoC said:

I also doubt that female players of DCS account for any significant numbers at all. 

Clearly this is because of the lack of representation.

Although men have no problem playing a female character since there isn't actually any reason to make a game character a self-insert of yourself in order to enjoy a game, especially a game with essentially zero characterisation, women apparently require a female character in order to play according to Elphaba.

[trevoC]

23 minutes ago, Scott-S6 said:

Clearly this is because of the lack of representation.

enjoyed this.

[Nahen]

Firstly:
There are quite a lot of women/girls flying at DCS. Quite a few of them kick "real macho guys" butts pretty well.

Secondly:
If someone wants to play "themselves" in a game, let them play RPGs, FPSs, or other CSs ... DCS is supposed to be a simulator - not a simulator of a man, woman, dog, stone or tree ... It's supposed to be a simulator of planes/helicopters !!
Can someone show me a plane in the real world that speaks in the voice the pilot wants? Or maybe the Pilots in the F-15E can request that their WSO address them with the voice of Charlie Chaplin? Or Shrek?
I see more and more people coming here who probably don't know what they're doing here...

When are the force fields, lasers, flying boxes with "powerups" and "boosts"?

Why don't you go play Warthunder or World of Warplanes instead of making up such nonsense here...

[trevoC]

48 minutes ago, Nahen said:

There are quite a lot of women/girls flying at DCS

Source?

 

[Nahen]

1 hour ago, trevoC said:

Source?

 

You're joking right?

[PLUTON]

You can say and repeat all you want gentlemen but I don't know how it is in other countries!
But I have a very close friend pilot on a Mirage 2000-5 who told me that there were more and more women in the air force control towers and that one time out of three it was a woman they saw. at the microphone.
Certain video from the French Air Force where we hear a woman giving the coordinates to the pilot of the M2000 or the Rafales.
Search the net and you will find.
Good flight gentlemen

[trevoC]

39 minutes ago, Nahen said:

You're joking right?

why would I be joking? you claimed "There are quite a lot of women/girls flying at DCS". I'm sure you wouldn't make such a statement without some sort of information in regards to it. 

Personally, I doubt it, but I don't know this for a fact. If you do, I'd like to be shown otherwise. I'd consider it pretty interesting if that was fact.

Where do you get the idea that there are "quite a lot of women/girls flying at DCS"?

[trevoC]

Just for reference (not that this is proof or indicative of how many women/girls play DCS, but it is a general indication of audience) which is all I have to go on, but more than you provided and lets be clear, I stated an opinion and expressed the idea that I may be wrong, you made a statement that would appear as fact.

Here is a DCS video from my channel with 80,000 views: thats 80,000 to zero

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by trevoC