Help with laser targetting

[Assamita]

Hi. Can anyone help me with my tecnique with laser guided bombs? I sometimes can't properly aim them, let me elaborate with an example:
I'm playing a mission where I'm given  coordinates of a target. I set them as a WP and set it as a TOO. However, they are not very precise and I need to slew the targetting pod view a little. When I've done that, and I'm properly dead center in the target with the TGP, sometimes the bomb doesn't hit where the TGP is looking but where the original WP was (I believe), as if skewing the view did nothing. How exactly should I perform this action?

Does it make any difference if I enable the laser before or after I slew the view on the TGP? 

[rob10]

That sounds like you're not doing a TDC DEPRESS to designate the target after you slew.  Just moving the TGP doesn't move the target designation after you've set it (i.e. if you WPDSG'd it).

[Yurgon]

8 hours ago, Assamita said:

How exactly should I perform this action?

A track or a video would help us be more specific.

Firstly, I agree with what rob10 just wrote, hit TDC depress to actually designate the spot that the TGP is looking at as your new target for the TOO drop.

However, assuming the target isn't far away from the waypoint, and also assuming that you're dropping the laser guided bomb from sufficient altitude, which I'd say should be at least 10,000 ft AGL, then the bomb should be able to pick up the laser spot and guide itself to the laser designated target even if the original target designation was several dozen feet away.

Wind can always be a factor; in case of strong winds below your current altitude, that might veer the bomb off target; I'm not sure how the Hornet handles this problem with LGBs (the A-10C does account for wind automatically, and no aimpoint-adjustment is needed on the pilot's part). So, always be conscious of winds, and I guess dropping with the wind (that is, with a tailwind) should theoretically allow the bomb to guide steeper and hit the target, whereas a headwind or crosswind might run the bomb out of energy.

8 hours ago, Assamita said:

Does it make any difference if I enable the laser before or after I slew the view on the TGP? 

Theoretically yes, in some circumstances, but practically no, usually not.

As far as I'm aware, the aircraft knows the terrain elevation through a terrain elevation database, and can do a fairly accurate calculation of where the TGP's line of sight intersects the ground. It's only in mountainous terrain, or when you're looking at a target from low altitude and at a very shallow angle, that these calculations can become unreliable, and where actively laser ranging the target improves the quality of the designated spot. So it doesn't hurt, but usually isn't necessary.

And once again, if you provide a track or a video, we might be able to point out more specifically why a bomb missed the target. If it's a track, preferably make it short, because fast-forwarding often breaks the track replay, and there's no rewind feature in case we missed something.

[Assamita]

5 hours ago, rob10 said:

That sounds like you're not doing a TDC DEPRESS to designate the target after you slew.  Just moving the TGP doesn't move the target designation after you've set it (i.e. if you WPDSG'd it).

I think I've tried that before, but I'll give it another try. Is there any indication on the screen that the target has been re-set after I slew and TDC depress, or it just stays the same? Meaning, how can I confirm that the target has been redesignated? 

[Recluse]

I agree with the other posters about re-designating, BUT also:

 

Have you actually:

- Set the correct laser code on the bomb(s) AND on the LTD/R of the Targeting Pod?

- turned on the LTD/R (L-ARM should appear in the HUD) before dropping and verified the Laser is firing after release? You should see a countdown to LASER in the HUD followed by a Time to Impact. If you ONLY see a TIME TO IMPACT then the laser is not set up.

Even if your original target waypoint is a LITTLE BIT off, but it is close enough, the bomb should still pick up and follow the laser spot and the targetting pod will fire the laser where it is pointing not at the original designated point.   You might be dropping the GBU as a DUMB bomb, and the AUTO release cue of the original point is close enough to get it to the originally designated target as a dumb bomb.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Recluse

[Assamita]

7 minutes ago, Recluse said:

I agree with the other posters about re-designating, BUT also:

 

Have you actually:

- Set the correct laser code on the bomb(s) AND on the LTD/R of the Targeting Pod?

- turned on the LTD/R (L-ARM should appear in the HUD) before dropping and verified the Laser is firing after release? You should see a countdown to LASER in the HUD followed by a Time to Impact. If you ONLY see a TIME TO IMPACT then the laser is not set up.

Even if your original target waypoint is a LITTLE BIT off, but it is close enough, the bomb should still pick up and follow the laser spot and the targetting pod will fire the laser where it is pointing not at the original designated point.   You might be dropping the GBU as a DUMB bomb, and the AUTO release cue of the original point is close enough to get it to the originally designated target as a dumb bomb.

 

Yes, all that I've done. I think the likely issue is not to depress the tdc after slewing (I haven't been able to test it yet)

[Coole28]

1 hour ago, Assamita said:

Yes, all that I've done. I think the likely issue is not to depress the tdc after slewing (I haven't been able to test it yet)

If you are actively lasing the target, TDC depress won’t fix anything unless the coordinates are waaay off from the target.  Laser guided bombs have a lot of leeway when it comes to inaccurate releases, assuming you are at sufficient altitude.  If you only had to slew a little bit from the coordinates, then this isn’t the problem.

What it sounds like is either the laser wasn’t armed, there was another laser source interfering with your bomb (such as a JTAC lasing on the coordinates rather than the target), or the laser code of your bombs don’t match the laser code of your pod.  By default the bombs don’t have a laser code assigned, you must assign them with the UFC for every pylon.  I *think* the TPOD has a default code of 1688, but that might also be something you have to set.  Make sure you set the LTDR code and not the LSS code as those are two different things.  Also the LTDR code can’t be set on the ground, you have to be airborne and the LTDR switch turned on.

A good way to trouble shoot what your issue is is to run it again, but press F6 once you release your bomb to watch it as it falls (don’t forget to lase while in F6 view, your controls still work).  If it falls in a smooth ballistic trajectory all the way to the ground, that means it didn’t spot a correct laser source so you know the problem is something to do with the laser itself. If it suddenly makes sharp adjustments in the middle of its fall, that means it IS following a laser, which means either there is interference from another laser source (in which case the bomb will fall straight to the ground at a specific point), or the target is way too far off from your coordinates (where the bomb will essentially fall sideways into the ground trying to reach the laser source).

Also, just to make 100% sure, you ARE using laser guided munitions right?  Only the GBU-10, 12, 16, and 24 have laser guidance.  All the other GBUs are GPS guided, in which case they would just hit whatever the active target point is, i.e. your coordinates.

[Assamita]

Yes, the laser code was properly input and yes, the bombs are laser guided (otherwise it wouldn't require a laser code). Also, it's a Raven One campaign, so all the ordinance is pre-set.

But anyways, I think it must have been either a wrong targetting mode (INR, Scene or Auto), or not depressing TDC, because I've managed to fix it.

[Bunny Clark]

Laser guided bombs don't have a TOO mode, are you sure you're not using a GPS guided weapon? With a JDAM or JSOW in TOO mode, hitting WPDSG will send the WP to the bomb as the target point, and pressing the TDC with the FLIR pod selected will send a new target point to the bomb. 

Which Raven One mission are you playing?

[Assamita]

16 minutes ago, Bunny Clark said:

Laser guided bombs don't have a TOO mode, are you sure you're not using a GPS guided weapon? With a JDAM or JSOW in TOO mode, hitting WPDSG will send the WP to the bomb as the target point, and pressing the TDC with the FLIR pod selected will send a new target point to the bomb. 

Which Raven One mission are you playing?

What I meant is that I selected WP designate in the HSI, and that converts the WP into a TOO waypoint (not sure if it's TOO or TOT)

[Tholozor]

WPDSG will designate the current waypoint as TGT. TOO is 'Target Of Opportunity', usually a targeting mode for GPS weapons or HARMs.

[Jenson]

10 hours ago, Assamita said:

What I meant is that I selected WP designate in the HSI, and that converts the WP into a TOO waypoint (not sure if it's TOO or TOT)

Yup, it sounds like that you have a GPS bomb instead of a Laser bomb. 

[Assamita]

4 hours ago, Jenson said:

Yup, it sounds like that you have a GPS bomb instead of a Laser bomb. 

No. You can target designate a WP with any kind of weapons. Heck, you can even do that with no weapons at all. I just didn't properly see what this WP turned into and mixed concepts, instead of TGT, as Tholozor said, I said TOO.

[AMEDooley]

Are you pulling the trigger/setting auto designate for your laser? Can’t tell you how many times I didn’t fire off the laser. Really you shouldn’t fire the laser until 10 seconds to impact. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by AMEDooley

[Assamita]

Guys, thank you for your help, but I already figured it out and marked the relevant answer as the solution.

I'm not manually lasing, I leave it automatic (it's really the best thing you can do unless you are lasing for someone else to bomb). It just the following process (now finally working since I was missing a step):

1- roughly set up a target, as close to the target itself

2- slew the reticle in the ATFLIR to properly aim at the target

3- TDC depress (this is the part I was missing)

4- LTD/R Arm

5- Follow the vertical line and drop when the horizontal line reaches the VV (the bomb has previously been set to AUTO mode and given the proper laser code)

 

There's not much to it, I was just missing one step