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F-16A Fighting Falcon


Kazansky222

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I really just want an early light weight F-16A Blk15, or F-16A ADF.

The future of DCS is 1970s-1980s, with the planes we have and the plane we have coming, thats going to be the most interest era to play.

Please just give me an F-16 that fits that era. Just rip out the screens and throw in a few more steam gauges and lighten it up.

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+9999999999

Definitely prefer the Block 15 to the Block 15 ADF (the former is much more numerous and much more relevant to the Cold War). It was widely profilic and is probably the perfect contemporary to the 'hope to' 9-12 MiG-29.

It would also fit basically perfectly for the upcoming Kola map, where it was operated by the RNoAF, on bases we're getting (such as Bodø).


Edited by Northstar98
How the hell did I spell prefer as brefer?
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

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Block 10 would be even more fun, being even more maneuverable with original "small tail" optimised for maneuver air combat and not for hauling heavy bomb loads which was incorporated in Block 15 and all later variants. Israeli were using this early Block 10 super nimble F-16A extensively in real air combat scoring many air kills during the Cold War era.

And Block 10 could be more historically relevant with more than 40 air kills in real wars when Block 15 didn't see much real combat, let alone achieving air kills.

If we go with another variant let's make it as different from what we have now as possible.

Quote

Shari Williams, F-15C pilot with >2000hrs
"I have not flown any Viper, I have flown against all from the block 10 to block 60. The toughest BFM fight was against a clean F-16A Block 10. Very light, excellent performance throughout the envelope, not nose heavy, and seemingly much more capable at very slow speeds. Equipped with an all aspect heater it was an excellent fight. As far as GE motors I think the big mouth Block 30 was very capable once they got the leading edge programming down."

 


Edited by bies
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15 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Definitely prefer the Block 15 to the Block 15 ADF (the former is much more numerous and much more relevant to the Cold War). It was widely profilic and is probably the perfect contemporary to the 'hope to' 9-12 MiG-29.

I also agree with the other guy, and I'd rather see a Block 10. A Block 1 with black radome is not very representative, and the Block 10 would fit in well with the upcoming Kfir and F-4E for Israeli campaigns.


The biggest issue I have with the current Cold War lineup is that I feel it's very unlikely that anyone will pick up the F-16A or early F-15A/C and due to this, land based bluefor will have a pretty serious disadvantage against the upcoming Mig-23/Mig-29 combo. In game, blue will be at a severe disadvantage in terms of weaponry, radar performance and BFM capabilities and that's simply not historically accurate. The early F-14A can help with this, but that requires adding in a USN carrier group to a Fulda Gap environment and F-14s providing OCA over Germany just doesn't sound that good to me. They would have their own place in a GIUK or upcoming Kola environment doing their own stuff with the rest of the Air Wing.

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Only if we get a Beka valley MP mission we have most of the elements either on the table or in the works

Syria/ Israel border

MiG-21 Bis

-----in the works------

MiG-23

F-4

Kfir

Now add the F-16A , F-15A and possibly Mirage III(add the Mirage III even if they weren't used in that operation)

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On 8/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, Fromthedeep said:

I also agree with the other guy, and I'd rather see a Block 10.

I mean, I don't really mind which A you go for, my personal preference in priority order would be the following:

  • F-16A Block 15
  • F-16A Block 10
  • F-16A ADF
  • F-16A Block 5
  • F-16A Block 1

But the gap between 15 and 10 is next to nothing compared to the gap between 10 and ADF.

On 8/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, Fromthedeep said:

The biggest issue I have with the current Cold War lineup is that I feel it's very unlikely that anyone will pick up the F-16A or early F-15A/C and due to this, land based bluefor will have a pretty serious disadvantage against the upcoming Mig-23/Mig-29 combo.

Yeah and that's a real shame. It would've probably made much more sense to go F-16A -> F-16CM Block 50 than the other way around. I guess it's one of the consequences of just trying to do the latest thing possible to do without really caring whether it will all fit together.

Oh well, I guess this thread is going to be relevant for a long time.

On 8/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, Fromthedeep said:

In game, blue will be at a severe disadvantage in terms of weaponry, radar performance and BFM capabilities and that's simply not historically accurate. The early F-14A can help with this, but that requires adding in a USN carrier group to a Fulda Gap environment and F-14s providing OCA over Germany just doesn't sound that good to me. They would have their own place in a GIUK or upcoming Kola environment doing their own stuff with the rest of the Air Wing.

I mean, going forward the Kola map will be my main map going forward, there the early (mid 80s) F-14A-135-GR will fit, but the lack of an F-16A (RNoAF operated 1, 5, 10, 15 and post Cold War the 20 MLU) will be a pretty big hole.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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3 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The early, MFD-less F-16A of Block 10 or 15 would be different enough from later Vipers to be an entirely new module, like Anton and Dora from WWII. I'd love to have that, too, it was a peculiar, heaters only dogfighter that was an absolute beast in ACM. 

I mean, I'm absolutely okay with the A being a separate module.

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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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21 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The early, MFD-less F-16A of Block 10 or 15 would be different enough from later Vipers to be an entirely new module, like Anton and Dora from WWII. I'd love to have that, too, it was a peculiar, heaters only dogfighter that was an absolute beast in ACM. 

Even as a completely different module, I don't see anyone taking on the project unfortunately. Interestingly enough, it does have an almost "MFD", it has a digital SMS panel and it's mechanized similarly to an MFD but it looks like those old calculators with huge orange letters. It's gloriously retrofuturistic. 

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Yeah, that's my favorite part of that cockpit. 🙂 It's an SMS panel, not an MFD, despite working more or less like an SMS page on the MFD (this is why SMS page in the modern Viper looks so sparse, it was directly derived from that display), but it was quite advanced for its time. It's comparable to the armament panel in the Mirage 2000.

IMO, it's quite possible someone will try this, after running out of higher priority modules. Either a 3rd party, or ED themselves. Remember that we're slowly running out of the obvious choices for the next module, a there's a lot of them in the works already, and ED has generally stuck to making the absolute biggest hitters.

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31 minutes ago, Stratos said:

If we ever get an A, I really hope it will be a ADV, the F-16 with the Sparrows looks really amazing!

Meh, for me it's fairly low down on the list of priorities. The ADF was a more niche variant, with only the ANG as an operator and was much less numerous compared to the Block 10 or Block 15. It would fit the 90s like Heatblur's current offerings but is less suitable than the regular 10 or 15 in Cold War scenarios.

Perhaps it could be a variant if we get a similar block to it.


Edited by Northstar98
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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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My module wish-list consists predominantly of early F-16 variants.   

My dream dev would of course be HB.  Can you imagine the magic they could achieve?   I can see the preview now, orange glow of the LED type characters on the SMS, electromechanical instruments flicking and whirring.

Rear aspect IR missiles still a thing. WVR and Iron Bombs.   Holeeee Sheeeit!!!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

+100000

I would very much like an ADF because it still can be used in modern combat with TWS and AIM-120 as a multirole (can even carry Mavs) but it can still be used as a late Cold War asset using Sparrow an Aim-9.

But a standard blk15 would be very nice as well (as far as I know it's the most produced block).

If a blk10 will arrive I ask just one thing: GPU-5/A 30mm gun pod for Desert Storm CAS. 

Furthermore a blk10 can simulate a blk5 and blk1 with just some skins, differences are very minor.

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3 minutes ago, Mig Fulcrum said:

I would very much like an ADF because it still can be used in modern combat with TWS and AIM-120 as a multirole (can even carry Mavs) but it can still be used as a late Cold War asset using Sparrow an Aim-9.

No. F-16A ADF didn't have any TWS or AMRAAM integration, it was old variant with original APG-66 radar, just slighty modified to be able to guide Sparrow missiles for secondary duty National Air Guard units as budget bomber interceptor. It was heavier than F-16A Block 1, 5, 10 or even 15 and it didn't see any air combat.

AMRAAM integration came far later with MLU, but F-16A MLU would be really bad choice - already overweight with all additional stuff, with poorer performance, not as nimble as early blocks, but similar in avionics and weapons to F-16C we already have. And useless in Cold War scenarios. It would be just as F-16 we already have but worse.

Something like Block 10 would be useful in DCS, historically relevant fighting real air combat and achieving dozens of air kills against aircrafts which are in DCS over maps which are in DCS. Not some ADF heavy, poor performing, niche Air Guard bomber chaser variant or another late, heavy AMRAAM truck MLU.

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The future of DCS is not 1970-1980, since they have professional customers who may have different demands for the software. Also, not every player likes cold war. 

It's getting real tiresome to see people pushing and hyping cold war in DCS without any regard for other wishes people may have. Again, to vocal minority strikes again.

 


Edited by dawgie79
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6 minuti fa, bies ha scritto:

No. F-16A ADF didn't have any TWS or AMRAAM integration, it was old variant with original APG-66 radar, just slighty modified to be able to guide Sparrow missiles for secondary duty National Air Guard units as budget bomber interceptor. It was heavier than F-16A Block 1, 5, 10 or even 15 and it didn't see any air combat.

No, being the ADF a post-OCU upgrade for blk15 F-16 it could certainly carry AIM-120 and there are plenty of photos showing it.

Said that I agree a standard blk15 (or 10) would be very cool.


Edited by Mig Fulcrum
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While the ADF was niche in reality, I feel like it could have been produced in a lot more numbers in a Cold War gone hot scenario. Whether we get Sparrows or not, the F-16 is great plane, so I'll take whatever A is added.

3 minutes ago, dawgie79 said:

The future of DCS is not 1970-1980, since they have professional customers who may have different demands for the software. Also, not every player likes cold war. 

It's getting real tiresome to see people pushing and hyping cold war in DCS without any regard for other wishes people may have. Again, to vocal minority strikes again.

Whether or not the Cold War is the future of DCS is debatable, but I don't see anything to complain about here. It's a wishlist thread with people expressing their desire for a certain plane.

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1 minute ago, Exorcet said:

While the ADF was niche in reality, I feel like it could have been produced in a lot more numbers in a Cold War gone hot scenario. Whether we get Sparrows or not, the F-16 is great plane, so I'll take whatever A is added.

Whether or not the Cold War is the future of DCS is debatable, but I don't see anything to complain about here. It's a wishlist thread with people expressing their desire for a certain plane.

It's not wishing anymore. It's pushing. And it's not limited to the wishlist section.

 

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Just now, Mig Fulcrum said:

No, being the ADF a post-OCU upgrade for blk15 F-16 it could certainly carry AIM-120 and there are plenty of photos showing it.

But after OUC it would be yet another heavyweight AMRAAM truck, with lower kinematic performance and maneuverability than Block 10, not relevant without any real air combat, too modern for earlier scenarios which are the reason why most people calls F-16A at the first place. It would be more or less like our late F-16C, but worse. They didn't shoot down any MiGs like Block 10, they didn't fly over Syria or Sinai.

For me the most important factor for F-16A is to depict its original lightweight flight performance and maneuverability of early pure blocks who fought real combat against MiGs.

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I want the original lightweight A, too. Fast, great turner, a real dogfighting hotrod. You deal with Sparrow slingers by dodging their missiles, charging to the merge, and then outflying the crap out of them. The A model was the BFM monster of the 80s and 90s.

11 minutes ago, dawgie79 said:

It's getting real tiresome to see people pushing and hyping cold war in DCS without any regard for other wishes people may have. Again, to vocal minority strikes again.

Professional customers are only involved in a few modules. Right now, Cold War is indeed the future, since aircraft from that period are much less classified than the mid-2000s ones. Remember, the 80s were 40 years ago, information from that time will only become easier to get. Also, old timey air combat is more exciting and competitive than the modern Fox 3 environment, it depends far more on pilot skill than on the aircraft capabilities. Also, we can get Cold War Russian jets, while in mid-2000s, NATO aircraft don't have any real unclassified opponents.


Edited by Dragon1-1
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1 minute ago, Mig Fulcrum said:

How cool would it be? (This is a ADF but I think it is pretty identical to the earlier As)

It looks fantastic, this is how all early F-16A looked like. Rudimentary radar scope in between legs, steam gauges on the right and RWR + weapon programer on the left.

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