jason_peters Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Whats the best way to turn the heli. In a fixed wing the best way is to keep at your corner speed and get as much g as possible whilst maintaining the corner speed (as far as i understand it) In a heli whats the best combo with rudder \ bank and collective ie assuming in fast fwd flight is the best way to have a bit of rudder \ a bit of bank and pull on the stick a bit??? when slow, I assume its all in the rudder thanks for any insight in this area --------- System: i7-8700k @ 4.9GHz; Nvidia RTX 2080ti; 32GB (2 x 16) DDR4 @ 3333Mz Ram; ASUS ROG Strix z370-E; SSD Drive; Oculus Rift-S; Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Whatever the speed you should always turn with pedal toward the turn i.e. left turn- left pedal. The thing you should consider are right turns at high speed- be careful with the right pedal as you might cause blades intersection. There is no much sense in sustained turn rate for helicopters, hence it's not defined. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yo, I was going to post exactly the same question! When I try to turn, I bank into the turn, use the rudder, and pull back on the collective, but eventually the turn rate seems to stop, and the pulling back on the collective seems to bring the speed down a fair bit. So I too was just wondering how best to turn the bird. Also interested in doing other maneuvers like defensive jinks, stall turns, etc. The manual is great if you want 150 pages on ABRIS functionality, or EKRAN codes, but there is no information at all on actually how to fly a helicopter, basic flight maneuvers or things like that. Thanks, Stingray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Whatever the speed you should always turn with pedal toward the turn i.e. left turn- left pedal. The thing you should consider are right turns at high speed- be careful with the right pedal as you might cause blades intersection. There is no much sense in sustained turn rate for helicopters, hence it's not defined. I've been wondering about the rudder on the tail fin and whether it was used purely as a balance aid, or indeed was used like an aircraft for turn in. Stingray. In a conventional heli you do not intitiate a turn with the pedals at all, they are only used for balance. Plus you do not pull back on the cyclic to raise your nose as you will lose all your speed, you raise the collective instead to maintain altitude (something that took a while to get the hang of for me after flying fixed wing) Can you explain what you mean Airtito with that last line, I think you mean that heli's do not do "Rate 1" turns? But that doesn't make sense as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ppler Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Step on the ball. Use the turn indicator as guidance, and keep the ball in the middle, while maintaining altitude with cyclic and collective. This is my non-real-helicopter-pilot tip :) A-10C, AV-8B, Ka-50, F-14B, F-16C, F-5E, F/A-18C, L-39, Mi-8, MiG-21, MiG-29, SA34, Spitfire, Su-27, Su-33, UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Nope you do not use cyclic to maintain altitude. forward and back cyclic is purely used to maintain speed in a turn, pull back and you will slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledmb Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 hi, anyone has a place where we can study about maneuvering helicopters, specially the Ka-50? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHepburn Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I was looking for similar information this morning and ran across this... http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/general/Flttrain/Planes/Pubs/TP9982/Exercise6.htm Most interestingly, I found this quote towards the bottom... "One common fault when entering turns is excessive use of the pedals. This fault can be corrected quickly or completely prevented, if you remember right from the outset not to apply pedal unless it is necessary to control yaw. Normally you may need only a small pedal input into the turn." hi, anyone has a place where we can study about maneuvering helicopters, specially the Ka-50? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therion_prime Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you turn off the heading dampener and FD, you can turn on a dime. My DCS movies: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledmb Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) I was looking for similar information this morning and ran across this... http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/general/Flttrain/Planes/Pubs/TP9982/Exercise6.htm Most interestingly, I found this quote towards the bottom... "One common fault when entering turns is excessive use of the pedals. This fault can be corrected quickly or completely prevented, if you remember right from the outset not to apply pedal unless it is necessary to control yaw. Normally you may need only a small pedal input into the turn." that's great! in fact, too much information! :doh: thanks a lot JHepburn! edit: this would be the .pdf version for download: http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/EN/TP9982/PDF%5CHR/TP9982E.PDF Edited January 2, 2009 by aledmb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Can you explain what you mean Airtito with that last line, I think you mean that heli's do not do "Rate 1" turns? But that doesn't make sense as they do. Helicopters do all kind of turns, even such that airplanes can only dream of. Sustained turn rate is what defines maneuverability of fighter planes which requires maximum thrust at the given density altitude and high G-load. Because of the principles of flight such parameter as turn rate can not be observed the same way as for airplanes. At flat turn you can easily hit 90 deg/sec turn rate with a helicopter. Poor F-22 does only 28 deg/sec :D In other words, while sustained turn rate is very important for airplanes it's means nothing for helicopters during combat. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh I see what you mean now :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 There is no much sense in sustained turn rate for helicopters, hence it's not defined. LOL but the turn radius can be zero. :D It actualy turns on a dime.! [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_peters Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 I was looking for similar information this morning and ran across this... http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/general/Flttrain/Planes/Pubs/TP9982/Exercise6.htm Most interestingly, I found this quote towards the bottom... "One common fault when entering turns is excessive use of the pedals. This fault can be corrected quickly or completely prevented, if you remember right from the outset not to apply pedal unless it is necessary to control yaw. Normally you may need only a small pedal input into the turn." Mmmm - nice site and some good info on flying a heli Do all the same principles apply to the KA-50 or should some techniques be different for any reason?? --------- System: i7-8700k @ 4.9GHz; Nvidia RTX 2080ti; 32GB (2 x 16) DDR4 @ 3333Mz Ram; ASUS ROG Strix z370-E; SSD Drive; Oculus Rift-S; Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ppler Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 would be nice if Vortex or another heli pilot could confirm that you hardly use any rudder/anti torque pedal while turning a chopper. A-10C, AV-8B, Ka-50, F-14B, F-16C, F-5E, F/A-18C, L-39, Mi-8, MiG-21, MiG-29, SA34, Spitfire, Su-27, Su-33, UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Nope you don't. While training I always got in trouble as I instinctively added a little pedal from my fixed wing flying (I never knew I did it until flying heli's). Once past 30 knots the pedals are used only to maintain balance. Remember the reason you use some rudder input on turn in for a plane, is because of the aerodynamic drag the ailerons cause. No such problem occurs in a helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3PukkU Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I always use the rudder to turn. Probably also a hangover from flying sim planes. Bearing in mind what Vortex said, that would explain why my turns always degenerate into a bloody mess. "Never interrupt you enemy when he is making a mistake" - Napoleon Bonaparte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 So the correct way to turn is just to bank and increase collective? Using the pedals to keep stability and cyclic to control speed? Gonna have to mess around with that tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The correct way to turn is to keep the slip ball in the center. For that you need pedal input, toward the turn. It's called coordinated turn. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledmb Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 again, what already has been said: http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/general/Flttrain/Planes/Pubs/TP9982/Exercise6.htm useful info! :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ppler Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 lol, I'm confused. A helicopter pilot says no to rudder input, a guy from ED Testers team says yes to rudder input. I'm in favor of no rudder input at the moment unless another chopper pilot counters what Vortex just said. :) A-10C, AV-8B, Ka-50, F-14B, F-16C, F-5E, F/A-18C, L-39, Mi-8, MiG-21, MiG-29, SA34, Spitfire, Su-27, Su-33, UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3PukkU Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 From what I understood from aledmb's link, rudder input should only occur if there is undesired yawing. Small corrections to keep the ball centered and so on. "Never interrupt you enemy when he is making a mistake" - Napoleon Bonaparte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunDown Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Here is what I did... Create a dinky little mission, just you on the airfield. Cut your HUD off. Take off, watch your instruments, find a landmark and try different things and see how the aircraft reacts. I was fighting trim and the AP for a long time. I was also fighting inertia. Inertia is the hardest thing to figure out. But with practice you will know when to pull a tight turn and when to swan turn the shark in a graceful turn. Use the VVI and the ADI alot more than you use it now. Also, measure yourself. Not like that...but create a metric for how you are doing. I thought I knew how to land or make turns, until i had to land on a pad. Then I was screwed, or I thought I could circle an objective, until I had to do it and maintain situational awareness. Its tough. But practice, practice, practice. Sorry for the ramble. Love the sim. SunDown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 lol, I'm confused. A helicopter pilot says no to rudder input, a guy from ED Testers team says yes to rudder input. I'm in favor of no rudder input at the moment unless another chopper pilot counters what Vortex just said. :) You can fly upside down if you like ;) I'm just telling you what the books say about general flying techniques of Kamov helicopters. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ppler Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 You can fly upside down if you like ;) I'm just telling you what the books say about general flying techniques of Kamov helicopters. Well, thats a good argument ;) (My upside down flying skills is extremely poor in a helicopter that doesn't produce negative pitch on the rotor blades ;) ) A-10C, AV-8B, Ka-50, F-14B, F-16C, F-5E, F/A-18C, L-39, Mi-8, MiG-21, MiG-29, SA34, Spitfire, Su-27, Su-33, UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts