Low Effort Bug List for F-15C

[henshao]

just the stuff I can remember at the moment, feel free to add or clarify as correct. not going into outright missing features

 

Bugs:
Radar Range too short by ~38%

 

NCTR has many missing aircraft types

NCTR range too short ? (should be 40nm+)

Guns AAcq appears to be clone of Vertical Scan! (should be horizon scan)

Altitude Hold, doesn't especially in turn

pitch trim compensator does not hold velocity vector steady under accel/decel

CAS high AoA irregularities

Stores drag too high/acceleration too low with stores

Wing tanks should normally deplete before centerline

Nav mode waypoint manual cycle buggy
nav mode picks random airfields when switching to ILS

cannot always cycle between all missiles when carrying 3+ types

Empty weight of 29500 should (I think) include gun ammo

[Nahen]

20 hours ago, henshao said:

just the stuff I can remember at the moment, feel free to add or clarify as correct. not going into outright missing features

 

Bugs:
Radar Range too short by ~38%

 

NCTR has many missing aircraft types

NCTR range too short ? (should be 40nm+)

Guns AAcq appears to be clone of Vertical Scan! (should be horizon scan)

Altitude Hold, doesn't especially in turn

pitch trim compensator does not hold velocity vector steady under accel/decel

CAS high AoA irregularities

Stores drag too high/acceleration too low with stores

Wing tanks should normally deplete before centerline

Nav mode waypoint manual cycle buggy
nav mode picks random airfields when switching to ILS

cannot always cycle between all missiles when carrying 3+ types

Empty weight of 29500 should (I think) include gun ammo

Who normally flies with more than two types of A-A missiles under the F-15C?
ILS mode ALWAYS selects the first airport you take off from. If you mix up something, it shows different. By default, it ALWAYS gives the course to the starting point.
The unladen weight is the unladen weight - usually the weight of the machine complete with fuel. Weapon masses are included in the total mass, not the curb mass.
NCTR identifies too few aircraft types? Can you give which, for example, it does not identify?

[Exorcet]

2 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Who normally flies with more than two types of A-A missiles under the F-15C?

9/7/120 was a very real thing early on in the AMRAAM's  service.

[Nahen]

At the time when AMRAAMs were a novelty, there weren't enough of them for every fighter to be operationally armed only with them - possible ...
From time when the production of the AiM-120 fully covered the demand for missiles in linear units - the Sparrows were be dismissed in the F-15C - somehow after the First Gulf War. Or maybe after Second War I don't remember. Since C versions came into service, B + C + Sidewinders flew again, but also only until the magazines were filled in C versions and their subsequent modifications. Nobody, having the ability to send an F-15 armed with the best rockets to fight, never hung on them any antiquities. Only in training missions.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

This picture is from just about the end of Southern Watch and was taken in 2000

It was quite a common load out from 1991 till the early noughties

[henshao]

Antenna elevation control keybind moves elevation at antenna look angle degrees-per-second, should be in feet-per-second at search distance (rate logic favored on 3000fps)

Radar display should bump down in range when STT target reaches 45% of the displayed range

When range bumping radar display to lower range, acquisition cursor should move to midpoint of the display

[Nahen]

14 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

This picture is from just about the end of Southern Watch and was taken in 2000

It was quite a common load out from 1991 till the early noughties

Well, if I can see the markings on the tail correctly, it is not surprising that the F-15A from 131 FW ordered in 1977, brought to the C standard, wanted to remember how it used to be years ago...

It does not change the fact that you probably haven't read it - I wrote about the fact that until the "second war" in the Gulf such combinations could have taken place. AiM-120 Revision B began to be delivered in 1994, revision C in 1996. Since the AiM-7 Sparrow has be produced more than 70,000 units by the time the AiM-120 came in, it is probably logical that for many years people tried to get rid of them in other ways than just scrapping them.
Find me a photo of an F-15C / E flying in combat mission over Syria, Afghanistan, Europe in the last 15 years with AiM-7s suspended.
Yes, you can, just like removing the CFT from the E version, but does anyone in their right mind do it from the moment when the amount of AiM-120 in warehouses provides full service facilities for all USAF and USNavy aircraft?

 

3 hours ago, henshao said:

Antenna elevation control keybind moves elevation at antenna look angle degrees-per-second, should be in feet-per-second at search distance (rate logic favored on 3000fps)

Radar display should bump down in range when STT target reaches 45% of the displayed range

When range bumping radar display to lower range, acquisition cursor should move to midpoint of the display

I am waiting for you to specify exactly which planes are not recognized by NCTR

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

9 hours ago, Nahen said:

Well, if I can see the markings on the tail correctly, it is not surprising that the F-15A from 131 FW ordered in 1977, brought to the C standard, wanted to remember how it used to be years ago...

It does not change the fact that you probably haven't read it - I wrote about the fact that until the "second war" in the Gulf such combinations could have taken place. AiM-120 Revision B began to be delivered in 1994, revision C in 1996. Since the AiM-7 Sparrow has be produced more than 70,000 units by the time the AiM-120 came in, it is probably logical that for many years people tried to get rid of them in other ways than just scrapping them.
Find me a photo of an F-15C / E flying in combat mission over Syria, Afghanistan, Europe in the last 15 years with AiM-7s suspended.
Yes, you can, just like removing the CFT from the E version, but does anyone in their right mind do it from the moment when the amount of AiM-120 in warehouses provides full service facilities for all USAF and USNavy aircraft?

 

I am waiting for you to specify exactly which planes are not recognized by NCTR

Not sure how 'Gulf Wars' are counted, do we ignore the 80s Iran Iraq war and the prior one in the 70s?

Regardless It seems you yourself didn't read what I said

Process its contents more carefully, It was quite a common load out from 1991 till the early noughties

It would be nice to sim this period a little more accurately with the F-15

[F-2]

AMRAAM in the gulf war and associated load out 

[Sacarino111]

23 hours ago, Nahen said:

I am waiting for you to specify exactly which planes are not recognized by NCTR

Hi.

This link is about that matter...

Saludos.

Saca111

[henshao]

if not interleaved, TWS should indicate high or medium PRF (TWSH or TWSM)
target "bricks" in RWS should be heading stabilized when the aircraft turns
Gunsight/pipper should be assuming a target/firing range of 2250ft when not in STT. Basically a smarter gyro sight

normally wheel braking should not be output until wheels actually spin-up after touchdown

Fuel quantity indicator is from an F-15A

[Nahen]

1 hour ago, henshao said:

Fuel quantity indicator is from an F-15A

[henshao]

F-15 TWS should have 8 target designation/launch capability
F-15 has never been compatible with AIM-7E, as it has never had CW capability

FLOOD illumination cone shape should be 16 degree wide 40 degree in elevation centered around waterline

[ColonelAgile]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:33 PM, Nahen said:

Who normally flies with more than two types of A-A missiles under the F-15C?
ILS mode ALWAYS selects the first airport you take off from. If you mix up something, it shows different. By default, it ALWAYS gives the course to the starting point.
The unladen weight is the unladen weight - usually the weight of the machine complete with fuel. Weapon masses are included in the total mass, not the curb mass.
NCTR identifies too few aircraft types? Can you give which, for example, it does not identify?

I often take two Sparrows just in case even with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders, I might need the FLOOD mode or taking a shot without having to worry about it going pitbull on a friendly. 

[henshao]

You raise a good point;

FLOOD should be available without AIM-7 Sparrow onboard (and should provide air-to-air gun ranging information out to a few miles...)

[Nahen]

15 hours ago, ColonelAgile said:

I often take two Sparrows just in case even with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders, I might need the FLOOD mode or taking a shot without having to worry about it going pitbull on a friendly. 

During PvP fights I have never approached the opponent at a distance from which I could launch a Sparrow, let alone a Sidewinder ... If you need Sparrow, you should fly typical multi-role fighters like F-16, F / A-18 and not an air superiority fighter

[Nealius]

On 9/11/2022 at 12:10 AM, Nahen said:

During PvP fights I have never approached the opponent at a distance from which I could launch a Sparrow, let alone a Sidewinder ... If you need Sparrow, you should fly typical multi-role fighters like F-16, F / A-18 and not an air superiority fighter

Some of us like to play realistically rather than Airquake.

[Nahen]

10 hours ago, Nealius said:

Some of us like to play realistically rather than Airquake.

Realistically? And that's why you pushing your F-15C opponent with Sidewinders ?? Well, realistically, especially against a relatively equal opponent
That's F-15C why easily accelerates to speeds above 2 Ma and has AMRAAMs, so it to use it and not chase around tails like "ordinary" fighters ... But who likes ... 
I wonder how many kills in the F-15C with the use of AMRAAMs took place at distances less than 20 miles.
Yugoslavia - 493rd Grim Reapers kils MiGs - well under 15 miles - but with Sparrow / Sidewinder use. 
Iraq, probably all aerial kills are either Sparrows or Sidewinders (I read that only Sparrows, but probably some numbers of Sidewinders also were be used)
And that's probably enough when it comes to fighting the F-15C with the AMRAAMs available in DCS. Nobody in their right mind, having a missile at their disposal that gives them a 50% chance of hitting a target after firing it down from 20-30 miles away. 

In real nobody will not risk their lives and machine to get 10 miles range from their target. Especially in such a machine that gives the advantage of speed, height and range of weapons.
And you write to me about "realism" ... nice

Your realism - come on guys spinning in a circle in sight it will be fun ... if we die, PLAY and repeat again

Edited September 18, 2022 by Nahen

[Nealius]

And you think you have the authority to tell people how they should enjoy their entertainment?

[Nahen]

You know that gaining an air superiority in a certain area of operation / task does not mean shooting down every plane, who will appear in the radar range ?? I think you probably know ... Ensuring an advantage and maintaining it is, first of all, not allowing enemy planes to operate in the area. And for this, the F-15C was constructed and use from near 50 years. And giving him AiM-120 completed its idea and capabilities in 100%

1 minute ago, Nealius said:

And you think you have the authority to tell people how they should enjoy their entertainment?

I am not an authority for anyone. But your vision of realism is a bit different from what is actually happening ... So, as I wrote, leave "your realism" to yourself and do not judge mine. Because from my point of view, You should fly in a Spitfire and not an F-15C.

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Nahen said:

You know that gaining an air superiority in a certain area of operation / task does not mean shooting down every plane, who will appear in the radar range ?? I think you probably know ... Ensuring an advantage and maintaining it is, first of all, not allowing enemy planes to operate in the area. And for this, the F-15C was constructed and use from near 50 years. And giving him AiM-120 completed its idea and capabilities in 100%

I am not an authority for anyone. But your vision of realism is a bit different from what is actually happening ... So, as I wrote, leave "your realism" to yourself and do not judge mine. Because from my point of view, You should fly in a Spitfire and not an F-15C.

Please stay on topic, and the topic was a list of bugs. If you have something to share to help diagnose those bugs, then that is what you should be posting here. No other discussion is needed. 

[henshao]

a workaround I found when carrying 3+ missile types and unable to select sidewinder: with AMRAAM selected, select mode (6) "longitudinal aiming" and sidewinder is automatically selected, though you will lose radar search. Similarly, AMRAAM is automatically selected when pressing mode (2) beyond visual range

 

bugs:

HUD should display aircraft mach in all modes (currently missing in Nav mode)
engines sometimes do not start or restart when commanded, though the JFS can be heard running

There should be an indication for which of the two available modes RWR is in
There should be a way to silence/deselect sidewinders when they are the only type remaining

VSD missing several things, some are: shoot cues for AIM-9/AIM-7/AIM-120, display of programmed steerpoints, cursor/target bearing range and dashed line from selected steerpoint (bullseye), numeric altitude coverage above 60k or below 0 feet (display can go into negatives), TWS high or medium prf, STT high or medium PRF (if modeled), rough target altitude in RWS/actual altitude in TWS mode when cursor place over a target (radar remembers on which scan bar the hit was made), and probably target hot/cold symbols (we have APG-63v1), azimuth symbols for targets 10nm beyond selected search distance or 5nm beyond guns auto distance (so 10-15nm)
 

 

[Nahen]

All in all, it's nice that you calculate it all ... except that the F-15C module is an FC3 module - no one in it has ever focused on comprehensive mapping of avionics. That's all you write about, 90% of cases are not "bugs" but the most common shortcomings in the development of this module. And until the moment when it does not come into being - and I am afraid no in My life - full fidelity module of the F-15C, nothing will not be changed and will not add anything more than what we have. So enumerating the shortage of avionics in this module against what should be based on the actual F-15C misses the point. If ED, RAZBAM, HeatBlur or any of the teams creating the FF modules for DCSa decides to make the FF F-15C module then searching for errors, inaccuracies, will make sense.

[TOViper]

Yesterday I had the situation that I was in ILS mode, and there was no way to come back to NAV mode.
Though I was able to enter BVR and BORESIGHT modes, but not NAV.

 

[Nahen]

This module does, and there's nothing we can do about it.