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DCS Newsletter discussion August 26th 2022 - DCS Top end Australia | Open beta updates | Enigma server


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I’d like to see some of the islands to the north, but otherwise, it’s an interestingly different choice, and if it brings onboard more players, then great stuff.

 

I’ve never understood the negativity regarding new modules, 3rd party or not.  We as the customers are not obliged to buy them.  If it doesn’t float your boat, don’t buy it, but I it does come across as rather selfish to try to deny someone else’s map desire.

 

 

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That's because if they're working on this, they're not working on a map that people really want. Basically, that's the problem everyone has with such maps. I agree, perhaps it's not a bad way to start, so if there are problems, they are confined to a map that has limited appeal, anyway, as opposed to a big seller like Vietnam. 

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42 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

If it doesn’t float your boat, don’t buy it, but I it does come across as rather selfish to try to deny someone else’s map desire.


+1 fully agree … some users forget that a prime ingredient for any DCS module, be it aircraft, terrain or campaign, is a developer passion for it .. if a developer is not passionate about Vietnam or corea, why want to force him into it?  …  It is indeed selfishness, not having any care for the developer’s passion.

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1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

That's because if they're working on this, they're not working on a map that people really want. Basically, that's the problem everyone has with such maps. I agree, perhaps it's not a bad way to start, so if there are problems, they are confined to a map that has limited appeal, anyway, as opposed to a big seller like Vietnam. 


and there’s the issue.

you’re assuming that people don’t want this map?  Which people exactly?  Chances are that it’ll sell well to any Aussie and a good number of other people too.

 

I get that you wish to have a Vietnam map, me too.  Doesn’t mean that another group can’t do a Vietnam map whilst these chaps deliver what they want.

 

Suggesting this is bad is like saying that no one can have a soft top car, just because you don’t want one. 

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31 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

you’re assuming that people don’t want this map?  Which people exactly? 

Everybody who said so in this thread, for starters? There appears to be a lot of people going "why Australia?" both here and on other media.

Yeah, if there was a choice between getting only one version of a car I want, and getting the other sometime in some indeterminate future, if at all, then yes, I'd be saying it's bad that they're working on the soft-top first. There are regions of the world more worthy of inclusion into DCS, especially considering the dearth of aircraft actually used by RAAF. About the only reason I'm anywhere near interested in this is that it will be a great argument for those who want ED to make an A model Hornet as an expansion to the C, after the latter goes out of EA.

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Yes, if one does not want this map, one's money will not be spent. True. I cannot speak for other but I don't see myself trashing the map, just it is not for me and I am thinking out loud I am not buying. Cool? 😎

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31 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Everybody who said so in this thread, for starters? There appears to be a lot of people going "why Australia?" both here and on other media.

Yeah, if there was a choice between getting only one version of a car I want, and getting the other sometime in some indeterminate future, if at all, then yes, I'd be saying it's bad that they're working on the soft-top first. There are regions of the world more worthy of inclusion into DCS, especially considering the dearth of aircraft actually used by RAAF. About the only reason I'm anywhere near interested in this is that it will be a great argument for those who want ED to make an A model Hornet as an expansion to the C, after the latter goes out of EA.

 

If you think that there's regions more deserving, knock yourself out, bring your design team together and produce it.

As for numbers, you've quoted yourself and the 20 or so in this thread.  The developers must be quaking in their boots.

Seriously, let them dream their dream and stop trying to p1ss on it, it's just not cool.  We get that you don't want it, but you don't have to keep repeating it.

 

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20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them. If this reflects the numbers in the overall community, good luck getting all that effort to make money.

It's a business. Unless you're a monopoly, you have to make products people want to buy, not necessarily the ones you want to sell. It's a map literally nobody has been asking for.

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41 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them. If this reflects the numbers in the overall community, good luck getting all that effort to make money.

It's a business. Unless you're a monopoly, you have to make products people want to buy, not necessarily the ones you want to sell. It's a map literally nobody has been asking for.

Wow, so you're so concerned about a group that wants to do a map of their homeland, and likely wouldn't have any interest (currently) in doing any other map, and you're dumping on them for wanting to do it.  Maybe it won't sell.  Honestly I'm guessing they probably aren't looking to get rich on it.  I'll ask the question again: in what way is it hurting you or DCS that they are doing what may be a niche map?  In my books it's fair for people to point out they'd like islands to the north added etc, or even say "meh, not interested", but the negative attacks on a potential new developer sure aren't going make other thinking about getting into the game want to step up.  And I say all that as someone who isn't super excited by this map and likely won't be a day one purchaser.

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56 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them. If this reflects the numbers in the overall community, good luck getting all that effort to make money.

It's a business. Unless you're a monopoly, you have to make products people want to buy, not necessarily the ones you want to sell. It's a map literally nobody has been asking for.

What monopoly are you claming?

Remember here are are 6 teams building maps, ED and 3rd parties:
ED: Marianas WW2 and surely other map
Ugra Media: Siria Map polishing and Normandy Map expansion. Will be working on a new map.
Razbam: Completing / Expand South Atlantic Map
ORBX: North Cape Map
OnReTech: Sinay Map
Check Six Simulations: Top End Australia.

That a Business, of course, but the 3rd party has put over the table your capability, people dedication and work, resouces and time to use the TDK and making DCS World maps and we expected see more and more products on a future. As the real world, people can select what product buy, but dont force to a 3rd party to make a "dream module or map" with none experience on a platform and tools.

Remember what happened with the old WW2 Kickstarted project, when said team tried to cover too much with limited resources, and without knowing the engine, nor the tools, ending up going bankrupt and having to rescue ED the whole project. You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run.


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

That's because if they're working on this, they're not working on a map that people really want. Basically, that's the problem everyone has with such maps. I agree, perhaps it's not a bad way to start, so if there are problems, they are confined to a map that has limited appeal, anyway, as opposed to a big seller like Vietnam. 

However if they were not working on this map, that doesn't mean that they would be working on the map you want (it's not really about what people want, there are people that want this map, and developers don't have to or sometimes can't just pick things based on popularity).

There isn't anything to complain about here. An independent developer chose to make a given map. The alternative is that we get nothing. They aren't taking resources away from other projects.

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Everybody who said so in this thread, for starters? There appears to be a lot of people going "why Australia?" both here and on other media.

There are people saying that about literally every map. I've even seen people say the Kola map is not relevant to military simulation, some how. The map won't be bought by everyone, but that's hardly a problem. The same is probably even more true for aircraft modules.

2 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Yeah, if there was a choice between getting only one version of a car I want, and getting the other sometime in some indeterminate future, if at all, then yes, I'd be saying it's bad that they're working on the soft-top first. There are regions of the world more worthy of inclusion into DCS, especially considering the dearth of aircraft actually used by RAAF. About the only reason I'm anywhere near interested in this is that it will be a great argument for those who want ED to make an A model Hornet as an expansion to the C, after the latter goes out of EA.

What's worthy of DCS is entirely subjective. This map features a country with an airforce that uses DCS modules, or close variants, in a region with historical conflict and tension, and many military exercises. Not that any of that is a requirement. You can easily create mission and campaigns on random land masses that no one has ever heard of.

I can only see the Australia map as a good thing. It means we have more map developers, which in turn should mean more maps in the future, and that's pretty much the best way of getting your preferred area included in the sim.

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1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them.

 

 

 

For my part I will probably get it, because I'm a map slut and I find something enjoyable in all maps, but I'm also part of the "why?" crowd. The map in question would not be on my Top 10 list, or even Top 50 probably, but someone is making it, I assume it will be well made, and it's a map and I like maps. To each their own. I mean I would rather have the Ka-50 and the NTTR map than the Apache and the Syria map. That has to put me in some kind of twisted minority. So maybe there are a few who will freak on the Ozzy map and more power to them.

 

If you want someone who shares your views, listen to Deephack's podcast from this afternoon. Chuckles goes on a full blown rant about the map and it's pretty funny.

 

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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With all these maps coming out I hope that they consider the server side of things, I admin a couple of servers and its getting to the point now I want to be able to pick the maps the server downloads just like the client can to save disk space, we just dont have the server diskspace to holed 6x 40-60gig maps that won't get used, and i know for sure we don't host any missions on SA, PG, NTTR and Marianas so would like the option to be able to opt out of that download put into the server client update.

 

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Now, please do not start giving us false hope regarding expansion to the PG map, okay? 😎

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18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them. If this reflects the numbers in the overall community, good luck getting all that effort to make money.

It's a business. Unless you're a monopoly, you have to make products people want to buy, not necessarily the ones you want to sell. It's a map literally nobody has been asking for.

That't only part of the picture, however. In a business, one has to have people willing to do the job first. Thinking that these guys would surely make a different (often voted for) map if they didn't make Australian one is a logical fallacy. They're locals who specifically want to spend ther time on making this terrain to fly over, not some other, so they're doing it, end of story. It's not a slave labour camp, devs are free to create whatever they fancy (examples: I-16 and CE-II modules), and you of course, are free to have a different taste and not buy it. It's not "white knighting", it's the reality.

After listening a bunch of podcasts with 3rd party devs for DCS or for Il-2 platforms, I can see most of these guys have regular jobs outside of DCS and making modules/DLCs is their part-time activity, a hobby even, with making money here being a nice extra bouns rather than primary goal. I'd hazard a guess this new team works on the same principle.


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I wonder if this dev will get a part of the forum just for discussions about the Top End Australia map?

 

I'm pretty sure the first 100 questions will be "Why?" Followed by some answers, followed by another 100, "Yeah, but why?"

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Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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Y'all are not asking the real important question: will tge map come with an ozzie assets pack? Roo's, barbies, emu's and sheep missile squads? Oh and of course prescilla the queen of the desert!


Edited by schurem
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11 hours ago, Beirut said:

I wonder if this dev will get a part of the forum just for discussions about the Top End Australia map?

Later when closer to a release each 3rd party gets a section. 

for now they have a discord here https://discord.gg/rnuYeuTj9v

On 8/27/2022 at 11:37 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

20 or so in this thread, versus one white knighting for them. If this reflects the numbers in the overall community, good luck getting all that effort to make money.

It's a business. Unless you're a monopoly, you have to make products people want to buy, not necessarily the ones you want to sell. It's a map literally nobody has been asking for.

If you want to give feedback do it with respect, calling people names because they have a different point of view from you isnt acceptable. 

We are getting new content, its optional, you make the choice as the consumer. 

Im looking forward to the terrain and wish Checksix all the best. 

 

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1 hour ago, schurem said:

Y'all are not asking the real important question: will tge map come with an ozzie assets pack? Roo's, barbies, emu's and sheep missile squads? Oh and of course prescilla the queen of the desert!

 

What about koala, in case I’ve missed something? Sharks! Yes, sharks! Let’s not forget about them. 🙂

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@BIGNEWY What you don´t see, are people, who won´t discuss in the forums or post feedback anymore, because you validating people, who try to expose others in the attempt to ignore the controversy of the announcement.

Everyone appreciate new developer coming to DCS. Not every product made for DCS, needs to be appreciated by everyone.

 

F-14b Tomcat   /   AV-8B Harrier   /   F-16C Viper  /   KA-50 Black Shark   /   Mi-24 Hind   /   MiG-21bis   

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8 minutes ago, Rosebud47 said:

@BIGNEWY What you don´t see, are people, who won´t discuss in the forums or post feedback anymore, because you validating people, who try to expose others in the attempt to ignore the controversy of the announcement.

Everyone appreciate new developer coming to DCS. Not every product made for DCS, needs to be appreciated by everyone.

 

You think we only look here for feedback? I can tell you we see a lot of feedback good and bad on a daily / hourly basis, I also get hundreds of PM's and DM's here on the forum and discord also various social media accounts we run. Dont worry we know what the feedback is. 

edit: Just to add, I did not say everyone needs to appreciate a new product, but there is various ways to give feedback good and bad as long as it is within our forum rules all is fine and welcome.

thanks

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