Good video regarding the F-4

[Despayre]

I haven't seen this posted here before, but if it has and I missed it, let me know in the comments, I'll remove the post.

 

 

[_BringTheReign_]

I'm going to post my youtube comment on that video here, I encourage Phantom lovers to have a stiff drink on hand 

 

So much is wrong here. This video started off ok but then took a very strange nose dive after the 6:00 mark (no pun intended). 
6:20: Initial F-4's delivered to the Navy and marines did not include laser bomb guidance systems.
7:03 The F-4N upgraded variant of the B pre-dated the J
7:20 What is "operational lock on capability?" Acquiring, locking, and FIRING on a target without a human in the loop?  Is this a confused misinterpretation of the VTAS system? That's my best guess at what happened here in the research phase. Or are you referring to semi-active radar guidance for missiles? In which case, that was not pioneered on the F-4J, or even the F-4 in general, it pre-dates the F-4. 5 seconds of google will clarify what SARH is, (and the pilot still needs to pull the trigger or pickle it off, folks)
7:44 No, the F-4N is a further development of the F-4B, and pre-dates the J. The S is a post-Vietnam upgrade of the J
7:50 How specifically did smokeless engine improve the reliability and aerodynamic capability? The performance of the engine was better, but not necessarily because it was smokeless. This is confusing 
8:20 The F-4S did not serve in Vietnam 
9:03 No. Incorrect. Iran does not operate F-4J's. They received F-4D's, followed by F-4E's and R-F4E's. They have never operated an F-4J. 
10:33 Easily outmaneuvering and outshooting the MiGs after improvements to the equipment and pilot training. The initial reputation wasn't that good, and that is an important part of the history of the Phantom that directly led to the creation of TOP GUN by Dan Pederson and the rest of the bros. Would have been a nice tie-in here
10:47 What specifically about the Phantom was modular? It wasn't any more modular than other fighters, upgrades like slats and radars required substantial re-fit, it wasn't like you could just snap things on and off like lego.
11:11 From birth the F-4 Phantom was fitted with a PULSE radar, not a DOPPLER radar. It did see a doppler radar in later variants, but it absolutely did not start life with a doppler radar, this is just plain disinformation
11:28 You said meters per second but the screen shows mph 
11:47 EIGHT air to air missiles total, not twelve. 4 sparrows in recessed fuselage nacelles, and 2 pairs of sidewinders on the inboard pylons. The Navy variants had launchers on the inboard pylons as well that could fit one sparrow each as well, so a total of 6 sparrows, or 4 sparrows and 4 sidewinders. Unless you're referring to some modern frankenjet, there is no  ordnance chart of a phantom with more than 8 A2A missiles
11:58 Initial production versions of the Phantom did not have a cannon. Initial prototypes did have colt cannons, but these were removed from the design. This is what was controversial - it was a fighter that went into production and hit the fleet without a gun. There are plenty of other sources that discuss this so I won't get into it here, but the way you present it in the video is incorrect. 
12:10 Which historians? 
12:29 Interesting that you mention this here, but you never once mention the F-4E anywhere else in the video up until this point, especially given that was the definitive export version and the backbone of the USAF until the Eagle came along 
12:41 I am going to start a drinking game where every time someone says that their jet drivers coined the term "speed is life" I take a shot, as well as "one pass, haul ass". These did not originate in the Phantom community 
12:45 in truth, it was true - Phantom drivers kept their speed up to both achieve their best rate speed, and out-energy their MiG counterparts with their thrust to weight gained from the J79's. Also, at 10:33 you literally said the exact opposite statement and you don't back it up either time lmfao 
13:03 I think at this point my sanity is slipping away - THE F-4 PHANTOM IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN THE PRIMARY TRAINER OF THE USAF OR NAVY
14:45 They weren't RE-designated the F-4G, the F-4G WAS the wild weasel. YGBSM!
15:23 ………. No. Just no. They retired it in 2004. Phantoms are going strong in Turkey and Greece however. 

I need a drink

[Bulldog_1]

I never watch his YouTube videos as they are always inaccurate.

[Fangs Out]

Yea, Saw the thumbnail and knew it wasn't going to be good. Kinda sad the fact he hit most of the bad takes of the Phantom, Bad at dogfighting i could understand. But that just as you said, Misinformation

[Dragon1-1]

Even then, it was more like the USAF pilots were bad at dogfighting, not the Phantom. Once Topgun got going, the Navy began to rack up kills. BFM, back then, just like today, was about the man in the cockpit, not about the plane. If you know your BFM you can outfly a Viper in a MiG-17, and if you don't, even the F-22 won't save your ass against a skilled opponent. Luckily for the US pilots, the Russians never had an idea similar to Topgun, even though they never stopped teaching ACM.

[LanceCriminal86]

2 hours ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

7:03 The F-4N upgraded variant of the B pre-dated the J

It did not, I'm seeing the first N flying in 1972, Js were in Vietnam well before that, deliveries started in '66.

The correct order would be B> J > N > S roughly with only B/J operating in Vietnam.

[Despayre]

6 hours ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

I'm going to post my youtube comment on that video here, I encourage Phantom lovers to have a stiff drink on hand 

 

So much is wrong here. This video started off ok but then took a very strange nose dive after the 6:00 mark (no pun intended). 
6:20: Initial F-4's delivered to the Navy and marines did not include laser bomb guidance systems.
7:03 The F-4N upgraded variant of the B pre-dated the J
7:20 What is "operational lock on capability?" Acquiring, locking, and FIRING on a target without a human in the loop?  Is this a confused misinterpretation of the VTAS system? That's my best guess at what happened here in the research phase. Or are you referring to semi-active radar guidance for missiles? In which case, that was not pioneered on the F-4J, or even the F-4 in general, it pre-dates the F-4. 5 seconds of google will clarify what SARH is, (and the pilot still needs to pull the trigger or pickle it off, folks)
7:44 No, the F-4N is a further development of the F-4B, and pre-dates the J. The S is a post-Vietnam upgrade of the J
7:50 How specifically did smokeless engine improve the reliability and aerodynamic capability? The performance of the engine was better, but not necessarily because it was smokeless. This is confusing 
8:20 The F-4S did not serve in Vietnam 
9:03 No. Incorrect. Iran does not operate F-4J's. They received F-4D's, followed by F-4E's and R-F4E's. They have never operated an F-4J. 
10:33 Easily outmaneuvering and outshooting the MiGs after improvements to the equipment and pilot training. The initial reputation wasn't that good, and that is an important part of the history of the Phantom that directly led to the creation of TOP GUN by Dan Pederson and the rest of the bros. Would have been a nice tie-in here
10:47 What specifically about the Phantom was modular? It wasn't any more modular than other fighters, upgrades like slats and radars required substantial re-fit, it wasn't like you could just snap things on and off like lego.
11:11 From birth the F-4 Phantom was fitted with a PULSE radar, not a DOPPLER radar. It did see a doppler radar in later variants, but it absolutely did not start life with a doppler radar, this is just plain disinformation
11:28 You said meters per second but the screen shows mph 
11:47 EIGHT air to air missiles total, not twelve. 4 sparrows in recessed fuselage nacelles, and 2 pairs of sidewinders on the inboard pylons. The Navy variants had launchers on the inboard pylons as well that could fit one sparrow each as well, so a total of 6 sparrows, or 4 sparrows and 4 sidewinders. Unless you're referring to some modern frankenjet, there is no  ordnance chart of a phantom with more than 8 A2A missiles
11:58 Initial production versions of the Phantom did not have a cannon. Initial prototypes did have colt cannons, but these were removed from the design. This is what was controversial - it was a fighter that went into production and hit the fleet without a gun. There are plenty of other sources that discuss this so I won't get into it here, but the way you present it in the video is incorrect. 
12:10 Which historians? 
12:29 Interesting that you mention this here, but you never once mention the F-4E anywhere else in the video up until this point, especially given that was the definitive export version and the backbone of the USAF until the Eagle came along 
12:41 I am going to start a drinking game where every time someone says that their jet drivers coined the term "speed is life" I take a shot, as well as "one pass, haul ass". These did not originate in the Phantom community 
12:45 in truth, it was true - Phantom drivers kept their speed up to both achieve their best rate speed, and out-energy their MiG counterparts with their thrust to weight gained from the J79's. Also, at 10:33 you literally said the exact opposite statement and you don't back it up either time lmfao 
13:03 I think at this point my sanity is slipping away - THE F-4 PHANTOM IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN THE PRIMARY TRAINER OF THE USAF OR NAVY
14:45 They weren't RE-designated the F-4G, the F-4G WAS the wild weasel. YGBSM!
15:23 ………. No. Just no. They retired it in 2004. Phantoms are going strong in Turkey and Greece however. 

I need a drink

Ya, ok, fine... but other than that?

[_BringTheReign_]

19 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

It did not, I'm seeing the first N flying in 1972, Js were in Vietnam well before that, deliveries started in '66.

The correct order would be B> J > N > S roughly with only B/J operating in Vietnam.

You're right - I was confusing it for the D - mea culpa on that one

[Bozon]

21 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Even then, it was more like the USAF pilots were bad at dogfighting, not the Phantom. Once Topgun got going, the Navy began to rack up kills. BFM, back then, just like today, was about the man in the cockpit, not about the plane. If you know your BFM you can outfly a Viper in a MiG-17, and if you don't, even the F-22 won't save your ass against a skilled opponent. Luckily for the US pilots, the Russians never had an idea similar to Topgun, even though they never stopped teaching ACM.

The Israelis had no problem using the F-4E to make middle east skies rain mig parts.

That video in the original post was awful.

[Fangs Out]

Yea, as well as the fact a competent pilot can use the great TWR of the Phantom to his advantage. 

[SgtPappy]

23 hours ago, Bulldog_1 said:

I never watch his YouTube videos as they are always inaccurate.

But if you never watch them, how do you know they're inaccurate?? 

Jokes aside, I was excited to have seen a new video about our phabulous Phantom but then there was so much wrong with the video.

It's one thing to miss some information but somehow he filled those missing gaps with just random, made up script. Where did he get this information from?

I've seen his MiG-31 video and another plane and both others were filled with incorrect "facts". Adding to the giant list above, he also mentions that the Army called the F-4 the F-110 but it was the air force. And almost nothing was mentioned again about the USAF save for a 5 second line about Handley's supersonic gun kill. 

No shade on you though, OP. If you want a recent video about the F-4 of better quality, there's this one from the Wings over the Rockies museum in Colorado:

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by SgtPappy

[Fangs Out]

Which is weird, as the F-4E has a lot of cool stories. Bolo being one, along with Rimon 20. The only USAF Plane the Tomcat shot down. The father of PGMs and many more

[Vampyre]

22 minutes ago, Fangs Out said:

Which is weird, as the F-4E has a lot of cool stories. Bolo being one, along with Rimon 20. The only USAF Plane the Tomcat shot down. The father of PGMs and many more

The F-4E was not used in Bolo. They were F-4C's.

[Bulldog_1]

2 hours ago, SgtPappy said:

But if you never watch them, how do you know they're inaccurate?? 

Jokes aside, I was excited to have seen a new video about our phabulous Phantom but then there was so much wrong with the video.

 

 

 

. Correction, I do not watch them anymore.

[Fangs Out]

1 hour ago, Vampyre said:

The F-4E was not used in Bolo. They were F-4C's.

Yea, Sorry about that . Should've generalized and said the F-4 Family

[Lurker]

This dude is a self-indulgent hipster. Avoid his videos like the plague. 

[Phantom88]

Hello,I'm looking for videos/info on The Phantom DMAS? Can Anyone point me in the right Direction? It would be Appreciated Greatly. 

[jaguara5]

Hud landing footage . Very noisy

And the take off

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mToocqs-Td0

Edited November 19, 2022 by jaguara5

[Omega417]

RF-4C but same difference.

[jaguara5]

Don't let the title mislead you. It has also F-4 stuff

Edited December 3, 2022 by jaguara5

[jaguara5]

 

[WinterH]

On 9/6/2022 at 10:51 PM, Fangs Out said:

Yea, saw the thumbnail and knew it wasn't going to be good.

Yeah, saw the thumbnail and was immediately like "oh... ok then, no need to watch".

His videos are entertaining, and just that. They are clearly products of serial production where they are hastily researched, and served without any prior interest/knowledge in the plethora of subjects he covers through various multitude of channels he's got, and thus aren't really good for getting factual info from.

[Dscross]

Like the rest of you, I try and dig up anything I can find on some airplane. I don't have an extensive list. However, Here are a couple of Ok videos and books. 

The pilots flight manaul from Amazon. (I like printed copies of stuff.) F-4 Phantom II Pilot's Flight Operating Manual: Navy, United States, Aircraft, McDonnell: 9781935700418: Amazon.com: Books

I haven't read this one yet, but it's high on my list. as the author flew both the F4 and the A10, I can imagine there are a wide number of DCS sim pilots who will find it interesting. Amazon.com: From F-4 Phantom to A-10 Warthog: Memoirs of a Cold War Fighter Pilot eBook : Ladd, Steve: Kindle Store

 

Hope you all find those interesting. 

[phant]

 

Bye
Phant

[DSplayer]

On 1/9/2023 at 4:51 PM, phant said:

 

Bye
Phant

Thats cool. The radar page seems to be similar to an F-15's.