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How to display allied flights in the HMD?


Mule
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Hi, I've been away from simulations for a number of months. Just getting back into flying the Hog. 

Can someone tell me how I can see the symbology of allied flights using the HMD. I know how to switch it on and use it to some degree.

I have two Apaches taking off from a different airfield to mine and I want to be able to track them as I fly the mission. Is this possible?

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That's a clear-cut case of "it depends". 😄

Obviously, you first need to enable the aircraft's Situational Awareness Datalink (SADL), which is very inappropriately labeled "JTRS" on the AHCP.

Once the jet is up and running and the HMCS is on, that's it.

Now, it depends on a bunch of factors.

Many AI flights will show up without a problem, including A-10C and F/A-18C (not sure about the F-16C).

For player controlled aircraft in Multiplayer, only A-10C (no matter if legacy or A-10C II) will show up, but F/A-18C and F-16C won't.

AH-64D use their own kind of datalink and don't show up on the HMCS at all, regardless if they're player-controlled or AI (the AH-64E uses Link 16, but we don't have the Apache Guardian in DCS yet).

The problem here is that SADL (used in the A-10) is not compatible with Link 16 (used in Hornet and Viper, IIRC) and needs a gateway, like an AWACS, but DCS doesn't seem to make that distinction, so in some cases aircraft with an incompatible type of datalink still show up in our A-10, in other cases they don't, and I'm not aware of any workarounds. So it's a mix of an actual real world problem together with a DCS-related problem.


Edited by Yurgon
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On 9/11/2022 at 10:34 AM, Yurgon said:

That's a clear-cut case of "it depends". 😄

Obviously, you first need to enable the aircraft's Situational Awareness Datalink (SADL), which is very inappropriately labeled "JTRS" on the AHCP.

Once the jet is up and running and the HMCS is on, that's it.

Now, it depends on a bunch of factors.

Many AI flights will show up without a problem, including A-10C and F/A-18C (not sure about the F-16C).

For player controlled aircraft in Multiplayer, only A-10C (no matter if legacy or A-10C II) will show up, but F/A-18C and F-16C won't.

AH-64D use their own kind of datalink and don't show up on the HMCS at all, regardless if they're player-controlled or AI (the AH-64E uses Link 16, but we don't have the Apache Guardian in DCS yet).

The problem here is that SADL (used in the A-10) is not compatible with Link 16 (used in Hornet and Viper, IIRC) and needs a gateway, like an AWACS, but DCS doesn't seem to make that distinction, so in some cases aircraft with an incompatible type of datalink still show up in our A-10, in other cases they don't, and I'm not aware of any workarounds. So it's a mix of an actual real world problem together with a DCS-related problem.

 

Can’t really say it’s a gateway problem when it partly works for AI assets but not for client.  
 

Basically if an AWACS is in a mission it should simulate the gateway and share data.  Shouldn’t matter if the donor aircraft are AI or clients.

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8 hours ago, Snoopy said:

Can’t really say it’s a gateway problem when it partly works for AI assets but not for client.  

As I understand, IRL a gateway is required for SADL to work together with Link 16 and vice versa. So that's part of the problem - the two systems don't work together out of the box. The other part is that DCS is a bit inconsistent here, where a gateway doesn't change anything and one combination works without a gateway when it shouldn't, and another combination doesn't work with a gateway present when it should.


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22 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

As I understand, IRL a gateway is required for SADL to work together with Link 16 and vice versa. So that's part of the problem - the two systems don't work together out of the box. 

This is a true statement.

22 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

The other part is that DCS is a bit inconsistent here, where a gateway doesn't change anything and one combination works without a gateway when it shouldn't, and another combination doesn't work with a gateway present when it should.

From my understanding this is a legacy DCS inconsistency from over ten years ago when the only playable fixed-wing module (excluding the Flaming Cliffs aircraft) was the A-10C. In the late 2000's decade when this was initially being developed, SADL was fairly new and intended to be proliferated and utilized across a lot more platforms than just the A-10C, to include ground forces using EPLRS-based wireless networks.

However, as things often go, plans and funding changed and SADL was never adopted by the Army. The JTRS (Joint Tactical Radio System) and related EPLRS aspects of the larger, overarching program became defunct and went by the wayside. There were even plans to fully integrate the AH-64D fleet into the EPLRS concept, but this didn't go very far. And honestly I don't know if even that would have allowed the AH-64D to talk to A-10C's over SADL anyway. There are so many aspects to such things, and very few things are compatible out of the box as you stated, because they rarely need to be.

This isn't based on any inside knowledge at ED (I've only been working with ED a few months), but I've been playing DCS since 2009 so I would venture to guess that it was originally implemented based on where the SADL program was expected to end up in a few years when fully fielded, which of course didn't end up happening.

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Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
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14 hours ago, Yurgon said:

As I understand, IRL a gateway is required for SADL to work together with Link 16 and vice versa. So that's part of the problem - the two systems don't work together out of the box. The other part is that DCS is a bit inconsistent here, where a gateway doesn't change anything and one combination works without a gateway when it shouldn't, and another combination doesn't work with a gateway present when it should.

 

As I said all ED needs to do to simulate the gateway is simply force an AWACS be in the mission to simulate the gateway so SADL and Link-16.  Doesn’t need to be anymore complicated than that.

 

The primary issue IMO is we get some data through a gateway for AI donor aircraft but don’t get the same limited data for clients. 


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  • 5 months later...
On 3/9/2023 at 8:37 PM, scopewizard said:

The question remains, will the A-10 be able to receive data of other type of aicraft flights via SADL using a gateway?

 

Better up. How about Link-16?

From January 13th Newsletter:

As with the Hornet and Viper, we also plan to add DTC and Link 16 functions to the A-10C II, but this effort will not start until after 2023 given the amount of DTC work that must first happen with the Hornet and Viper

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  • 3 weeks later...
Quote

Many AI flights will show up without a problem, including A-10C and F/A-18C (not sure about the F-16C).

I can confirm the Viper does show up in SADL.

All helo's do not work with SADL (in my experience) whether there is an E-2 or E-3 in the AO or not.

I can confirm that GR-4 Tornado's DO work with SADL.

As an aside, my team would be issued an MBITR if we had to debark our aircraft for transload/CASEVAC in case we became separated. Later versions of the old MBITR (AN/PRC-148) did work with most U.S. aircraft in direct recognition and secure data communication (albeit very limited). If I remember correctly all we could really send were brief "text" messages, GPS MGRS coordinates, and smiley faces.

 

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